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Army Related Forum Topics about the Israeli armed forces, special forces, tanks, apc's, guns etc + world armies.

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  #1  
Old 03-28-2008, 08:12 AM
OttawaLoneWolf OttawaLoneWolf is offline
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Default Why Do Israeli shoot their pistol like this ?

While I was in Israel, I went to an indoor range in Netanya a lot and the instructor there taught me to 1. position the pistol up side down
2. grap the slide. 3. push the pistol forward

WHY !? it is a very strange way to shoot pistol

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  #2  
Old 04-02-2008, 09:33 PM
joejd12 joejd12 is offline
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idk... but i can tell you that i used to live next to a firing range and police/army training center for most of my short life.... and ive never seen them teaching the recruits/trainees to shoot a gun like that....
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  #3  
Old 04-06-2008, 03:35 AM
BrittleSteel BrittleSteel is offline
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I can't say, not my field, but i could guess that it helps you kkep the gun pointed forward on the target instead of vearing up when cocking right side up?

Once loaded you just need yo rotate your wrist and the guns easily falls into your second supporting hand.

This is all guess work - could that make any sense?
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  #4  
Old 06-14-2008, 11:56 AM
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Lol...that's worse than the "gangsta's" holding thier guns sideways...
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  #5  
Old 06-28-2008, 11:45 AM
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idfgolani idfgolani is offline
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This method of shooting is not only unsidedown, but very inaccurate. I bet this photo is just a soldier either poising or trying different ways of shooting his weapon for fun.
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  #6  
Old 06-30-2008, 06:10 PM
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To me it looks like training for narrow space indoor clearing. Like MOUT/CQB action.
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:50 AM
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Actually, he's preping to chamber the round. A little to much just to chamber a round. At least I think so.
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  #8  
Old 07-05-2008, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idfgolani View Post
Actually, he's preping to chamber the round. A little to much just to chamber a round. At least I think so.
Exactly, thatīs just the position for chambering the round (cocking). After that hand goes in the normal front position.. (one hand, two hands).
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Old 07-06-2008, 02:07 AM
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This is not IDF taught.

Last edited by rafi; 07-06-2008 at 12:30 PM..
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  #10  
Old 07-06-2008, 12:10 PM
shelory shelory is offline
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its what Copperhead said its just a way to cock the gun fast while taking the pistol out of the harness and putting it into position to shoot. it makes taking the gun out and shooting into one swift move instead of 3 distanced moves (take out the gun, cock, and aim), its just a lot faster. i know that the police are trained to shoot like this as thats how i was trained to shoot a pistole.
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  #11  
Old 07-18-2008, 12:26 PM
bebop1034 bebop1034 is offline
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ive seen many IDF men cocking there weapons like this and its as shelory ^^ said it just makes it one swift movement :)
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2008, 01:51 PM
115NYVI 115NYVI is offline
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Angry Un-freakin'-real!

As a veteran of CQB with Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, a veteran of two decades' service as a Detective with a major South Folorida law enforcement agency's undercover narcotics unit (and the Hostage Rescue Team), and a long-time competative pistol shooter, I'd like to offer the following thoughts for your consideration:
1. This is, indeed, the "showboat" (aka "gangsta" or "totallly brain-dead dumb-a**") method of firing a hand gun. It is inaccurate and just about begs for a mechanical malfunction. The only reason to cant a weapon to one side to that extreme would be to clear the chamber.
2. According to the Israeli police narcotics investigators with whom I worked jointly (admittedly this was about eleven years ago), the motions desribed are the way Israeli law enforcement personnel are taught to draw and fire a pistol, except that the weapon is kept properly upright. At the time IPD officers carried their sidearms in Condition 3 (!?!?!?!?), i.e., hammer down on an UNLOADED chamber. They were taught to draw the weapon with the strong hand, grasp the slide and hold tight with the weak hand, and shove the weapon outward toward the target, causing the slide to retract. They then released the slide, causing the weapon to chamber a round and go into battery, and finally assume a two-handed position.
3. This is, of course, totally idiotic. No Israeli agency uses single-action pistols (e.g., Beratta Brigadier or Browning P35 ["Hi-Power"]) any more; today's weapons are either DA (Ruger, H&K, SIG) or, in a very few instances, "Safe Action"/internal striker (Glock). They feature hammer block mechanisms and are expressly designed to be SAFELY carried with a loaded chamber, hammer down. You can draw and fire in one smooth motion and in one second or less (with the requisite practice, of course).
Every major agency in the US or overseas of which I am aware uses this modern method. PLEASE tell me that Israel, in so many ways the paragon of up-to-date weaponry and gun-handling, is not still teaching its police personnel to hit the streets carrying an EMPTY chamber and try to "draw under the drop".
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  #13  
Old 08-29-2008, 02:09 AM
shelory shelory is offline
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well i know the volunteer police "hit the streets" as you say it carrying an EMPTY chamber but that is because they cant be trusted with a gun with a bullet in its chamber. i dont know if the police do it that way.
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2008, 05:41 AM
tzvi.mejer tzvi.mejer is offline
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The Israeli police, by law can not go on the street with a loaded weapon.
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  #15  
Old 10-12-2008, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tzvi.mejer View Post
The Israeli police, by law can not go on the street with a loaded weapon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 115NYVI View Post
PLEASE tell me that Israel, in so many ways the paragon of up-to-date weaponry and gun-handling, is not still teaching its police personnel to hit the streets carrying an EMPTY chamber and try to "draw under the drop".
As is often the case with so many things on this site, those with the real answer are not answering. I worked with Israel police in Jerusalem and the East Jerusalem Police Station (Beit HaMoshal for those that actually know the city) as recently as 6 weeks ago, and I have no comment on the day to day practices and daily orders of engagement of the Police and the weapons employed.

Every city is different, and every command, Northern, Central, etc. has different realities it deals with. Parts of Israel are like any uptown high income city in the world, and others are true third world. There is no universal answer. Some police are in armour and carry automatic rifles, others pistols and wear shorts. Obviously ROE differ accordingly.

My only comment is that every single shift that goes out has a full 45 minute briefing detailing what the orders of engagement are for the next 8 hours, and the exact method that would employed if it changed. I've worked double shifts where the difference in 8 hours was incredible - in both directions.
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  #16  
Old 01-03-2009, 09:20 AM
barak barak is offline
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He is dryfireing his weapon. practacing drawing you weapon this way is the only way to get good without spend hundreds of dollars on ammo.

Israeli troops will do this for a week before even getting shoot a round.

Police issue jerico 9mm's come in single action only, no deckocker so they must draw cock and shoot his weapon in one fluid motion and thats what this man is doing.

They do this because in stealth operations where timing is key they dont want accedental discharge boching the mission. They have learnd from experiance that accedents happen.

Ive seen instructors and hardend professinals do this faster than the avrage joe can blink.

Thats why their hand gun tactics are diffrent than US police and special ops.
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  #17  
Old 01-03-2009, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barak View Post

Israeli troops will do this for a week before even getting shoot a round.

Police issue jerico 9mm's come in single action only, no deckocker so they must draw cock and shoot his weapon in one fluid motion and thats what this man is doing.

They do this because in stealth operations where timing is key they dont want accedental discharge boching the mission. They have learnd from experiance that accedents happen.
I find your answers fascinating.
I would be very curious as to your background.

Drop me a PM with your Mispar Ishi.
Maybe it is the difference in when we served.

Rafi
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  #18  
Old 01-03-2009, 11:39 PM
barak barak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafi View Post
I find your answers fascinating.
I would be very curious as to your background.

Drop me a PM with your Mispar Ishi.
Maybe it is the difference in when we served.

Rafi
Giyus magav march 1999.
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  #19  
Old 01-04-2009, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barak View Post
Giyus magav march 1999.
Sent you a PM
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2009, 01:30 AM
barak barak is offline
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I just tried this method and its surprisingly comfertable it just looks strange.

It didnt slow my draw time at all.

Dont knock it till you've tried it.
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