Fn-Fal

[Gasmann]

Anyone out there have experience with the Fn-Fal? I'm a new owner of one and am interested in any tips or tricks as far as reliability, accuracy maintenance or combat use. What was the normal combat load?

thanks in advance

[rafi]

Originally Posted by Gasmann

Anyone out there have experience with the Fn-Fal? I'm a new owner of one and am interested in any tips or tricks as far as reliability, accuracy maintenance or combat use. What was the normal combat load?

thanks in advance

I can offer historical data only.

In the early 1970s it was my first "staandard issue" weapon. It was an odd time, pre-M16, with the only other major option being the Uzi. After a week of carrying this cannon, we all longed for them.

Pretty accurate in it's day, if you were able to keep the gas chamber calibraated correctly. There was a knob toward the end of the barrel. It seldom, if ever stayed correct for long. I almost cried when I got my bright shiny M16.

I m told they improved with age, but I w cannot vouch for this. Not sure anyone else on this board goes back as far as me in the IDF, I would be curious to hear about better experiences.

[Sgt. Cav]

My experience with the FN FAL, showed it to be extremely robust and reliable, it's accuracy was very good, it used a 20 round mag, and I did not experience any problems with the gas regulation system as long as you remembered to set it properly after a detailed cleaning.

I liked the gas system because when the weapon got dirty you could open it up, and maintain the reliability of operation.

The standard load was the 147--150 grain, 7.62x51mm, at 2750fps, which made it a hard hitting weapon, and very effective to 500+ meters.

Depending on the model, it was a bit long, and heavy at 8.8 to 9.8 lbs, but that contributed to it's long range accuracy. The weight helped in holding your sight picture when breathing heavily from exertion and stress.

It is a simple weapon to maintain, it comes apart easily, and cleans easily, hold zero, and operates well in extreme conditions.

I don't own one as of now, made the mistake of selling a folding stock FAL 50-63 and never replaced it, something I really should do one day.

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Cav

My experience with the FN FAL, showed it to be extremely robust and reliable, it's accuracy was very good, it used a 20 round mag, and I did not experience any problems with the gas regulation system as long as you remembered to set it properly after a detailed cleaning.

I liked the gas system because when the weapon got dirty you could open it up, and maintain the reliability of operation.

The standard load was the 147--150 grain, 7.62x51mm, at 2750fps, which made it a hard hitting weapon, and very effective to 500+ meters.

Depending on the model, it was a bit long, and heavy at 8.8 to 9.8 lbs, but that contributed to it's long range accuracy. The weight helped in holding your sight picture when breathing heavily from exertion and stress.

It is a simple weapon to maintain, it comes apart easily, and cleans easily, hold zero, and operates well in extreme conditions.

I don't own one as of now, made the mistake of selling a folding stock FAL 50-63 and never replaced it, something I really should do one day.

So which one do you prefer in terms of accuracy, the FAL or the M14? I've heard it said forever that the M14s are more accurate.

[Sgt. Cav]

Archangel, the M-14, the M-14 has better sights, with more adjustment, in standard form it gave minuet of angle adjustments, the FAL was limited to a sliding rear battle sight, and a fixed front.

Now if you go to the M-21, it is no contest, a glass bedded receiver, 1/2 minuet of angle rear sight adjustments, with iron sights, you were good to go to 800........then add the ART scope, one bad mother, as many a tango has found out for 1/2 a century.


And the new chassie mounted M-14's and advanced optics, it is still good to go.

[Paparock]

I used an M21 with a Leatherwood scope while a member of the Texas Army National Guard 143rd Infantry Regiment (Airborne) after I left active duty in the Army and it is my favorite rifle.

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Cav

Archangel, the M-14, the M-14 has better sights, with more adjustment, in standard form it gave minuet of angle adjustments, the FAL was limited to a sliding rear battle sight, and a fixed front.

Now if you go to the M-21, it is no contest, a glass bedded receiver, 1/2 minuet of angle rear sight adjustments, with iron sights, you were good to go to 800........then add the ART scope, one bad mother, as many a tango has found out for 1/2 a century.


And the new chassie mounted M-14's and advanced optics, it is still good to go.

I figured they were right I just didn't know all the features of the FAL.

As for the M14 EBR up there, I have plans for my own civilian legal version. :)

[scelli]

Originally Posted by Paparock

I used an M21 with a Leatherwood scope while a member of the Texas Army National Guard 143rd Infantry Regiment (Airborne) after I left active duty in the Army and it is my favorite rifle.

Same unit I'm familiar with which was mentioned in my previous posting here a while back, right? Knew a few men from there circa 1981-1984:

http://www.israelmilitary.net/showpo...6&postcount=42

[scelli]

I've been separated from AD for too long: On one of the previous pics posted by Sgt. Cav, can some Sandbox vets around here (or anyone else for that matter) identify the meaning of the flash I've zeroed in on with the red arrow above this guy's 1st Infantry Division patch?

[Sgt. Cav]

seclli, it stands for "International Security Assistance Force" Afghanistan, and it's primary mission is;

ISAF, in support of the Government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, conducts operations in Afghanistan to reduce the capability and will of the insurgency, support the growth in capacity and capability of the Afghan National Security Forces (ANSF), and facilitate improvements in governance and socio-economic development, in order to provide a secure environment for sustainable stability that is observable to the population.


Security

In accordance with all the relevant Security Council Resolutions, ISAF’s main role is to assist the Afghan government in the establishment of a secure and stable environment. To this end, ISAF forces are conducting security and stability operations throughout the country together with the Afghan National Security Forces and are directly involved in the development of the Afghan National Army through mentoring, training and equipping.


Reconstruction and development

Through its Provincial Reconstruction Teams, ISAF is supporting reconstruction and development (R&D) in Afghanistan, securing areas in which reconstruction work is conducted by other national and international actors.
Where appropriate, and in close cooperation and coordination with GIROA and UNAMA representatives on the ground, ISAF is also providing practical support for R&D efforts, as well as support for humanitarian assistance efforts conducted by Afghan government organizations, international organizations, and NGOs.


Governance

ISAF, through its Provincial Reconstruction Teams (PRTS), is helping the Afghan Authorities strengthen the institutions required to fully establish good governance and rule of law and to promote human rights. PRTs’ principal mission in this respect consists of building capacity, supporting the growth of governance structures and promoting an environment within which governance can improve.

[Sgt. Cav]

Originally Posted by Paparock

I used an M21 with a Leatherwood scope while a member of the Texas Army National Guard 143rd Infantry Regiment (Airborne) after I left active duty in the Army and it is my favorite rifle.

Hay Papa, don't you know you never leave a aircraft until the contract with the airframe had expired, you know what the say falls out of the sky

Used to dump fellas like you out of my Huey at Ft. Hood. 227th AHB.

[scelli]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Cav

seclli, it stands for "International Security Assistance Force" Afghanistan...

Thanks for the ID! Guess the current crop of American troops will be using that ISAF acronym like we used to throw around MACV during our time.

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by scelli

Thanks for the ID! Guess the current crop of American troops will be using that ISAF acronym like we used to throw around MACV during our time.

Prolly. Maybe without a similar group like the MAC-SOG was. That group was the most impressively dangerously trained concentration of troops I think I've ever read about. Like the freakin 300 but capable of SO MUCH more damage.

SEALs, SF, Delta?, AFSpec Ops, Force Recon, CIA Para Mil groups, all in one outfit. Just a group of bad mojo all around.

[scelli]

Originally Posted by Archangel

Prolly. Maybe without a similar group like the MAC-SOG was. That group was the most impressively dangerously trained concentration of troops I think I've ever read about. Like the freakin 300 but capable of SO MUCH more damage.

SEALs, SF, Delta?, AFSpec Ops, Force Recon, CIA Para Mil groups, all in one outfit. Just a group of bad mojo all around.

Frankly, MACV was never one of my favorite subjects to discuss. I personally despised Willie Westmoreland (Mr. Light-At-The-End-Of-The-Tunnel himself) and Creighton Abrams was no better after Westy rotated out of Vietnam far as I was concerned. Thought their behavior in providing downright misleading facts regarding conducting the war in RVN to both the White House and the general public was almost tantamount to treason and cost many more lives than was actually necessary. If I had the authority, I'd have yanked their West Point ring-knocking lifer pensions right out from underneath their sorry aft-sides. I'm not kidding, either.

Actually ran into Abrams (almost literally) underneath the old JFK Stadium in Philadelphia. It was '73 or '74 (don't remember which) and I and some others were assigned security at the annual Army-Navy game. Went to the latrines which were located underneath the stadium bleachers and you have to hump through a maze of darkened tunnels to get to them. He was coming towards me and I could see whoever it was had an awful lot of fruit salad on the breast of his Class A uniform. Caught the shoulder stars of a general officer twinkle at just the right time in the dim light and whipped him a sharp salute, which he acknowledged from yours truly (a mere enlisted Corporal E-4 at the time) smugly and then continued moving out on his own merry way.

What a pompous ass.

[Sgt. Cav]

Originally Posted by Archangel

Prolly. Maybe without a similar group like the MAC-SOG was. That group was the most impressively dangerously trained concentration of troops I think I've ever read about. Like the freakin 300 but capable of SO MUCH more damage.

SEALs, SF, Delta?, AFSpec Ops, Force Recon, CIA Para Mil groups, all in one outfit. Just a group of bad mojo all around.

I flew missions that supported those guys, but like every thing else that worked, once the liberals found out what the Special Observation Group was all about they went apesh!t, and strangled their funds.

Victor Charles was absolutely scared sh!t less by those guys, they were the things that went bump in the night, and ended many a wet dream in mid snore.

[Paparock]

ISAF - International Security Assistance Force http://www.isaf.nato.int/,

[Paparock]

ISAF - International Security Assistance Force http://www.isaf.nato.int/,

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by scelli

Thanks for the ID! Guess the current crop of American troops will be using that ISAF acronym like we used to throw around MACV during our time.

Originally Posted by scelli

Frankly, MACV was never one of my favorite subjects to discuss. I personally despised Willie Westmoreland (Mr. Light-At-The-End-Of-The-Tunnel himself) and Creighton Abrams was no better after Westy rotated out of Vietnam far as I was concerned. Thought their behavior in providing downright misleading facts regarding conducting the war in RVN to both the White House and the general public was almost tantamount to treason and cost many more lives than was actually necessary. If I had the authority, I'd have yanked their West Point ring-knocking lifer pensions right out from underneath their sorry aft-sides. I'm not kidding, either.

Actually ran into Abrams (almost literally) underneath the old JFK Stadium in Philadelphia. It was '73 or '74 (don't remember which) and I and some others were assigned security at the annual Army-Navy game. Went to the latrines which were located underneath the stadium bleachers and you have to hump through a maze of darkened tunnels to get to them. He was coming towards me and I could see whoever it was had an awful lot of fruit salad on the breast of his Class A uniform. Caught the shoulder stars of a general officer twinkle at just the right time in the dim light and whipped him a sharp salute, which he acknowledged from yours truly (a mere enlisted Corporal E-4 at the time) smugly and then continued moving out on his own merry way.

What a pompous ass.

What general isn't either a pompous ass or getting off on an ego trip? They're the only ones dumb enough to want the job. No way, no higher than a Lt Col/Commander for me... Even the full birds hate seeing brass coming. :)

Originally Posted by Sgt. Cav

I flew missions that supported those guys, but like every thing else that worked, once the liberals found out what the Special Observation Group was all about they went apesh!t, and strangled their funds.

Victor Charles was absolutely scared sh!t less by those guys, they were the things that went bump in the night, and ended many a wet dream in mid snore.

Amen. That had to be a crazy ride to support those guys. Yeah I have a book on a guy who served in SOG. He was at CCN, the hottest action of all three CCs. He had a crazy sniper who died saving him and his men while they got out of a **** storm. Another of his men in a night op knifed a dude from behind after he almost got stepped on by a Hamburger. Dude's name is Nicholson. He includes some old pictures in his book. He came back and complained about his assignment and got it changed. He also mentioned hunting for fun from a Huey and getting help from the Aussies which he preferred as they were always crazy enough to try anything to land and get you out of a mess.

I'd love to shake one of them's hand. They had some real cajones for sure doing what they did day to day.

[scelli]

Originally Posted by Archangel

He also mentioned hunting for fun from a Huey and getting help from the Aussies which he preferred as they were always crazy enough to try anything to land and get you out of a mess.

I'd love to shake one of them's hand. They had some real cajones for sure doing what they did day to day.

The Aussies were/are fantastic troops and definitely three bricks shy of a load at times, just like the Brits. Also: It isn't mentioned often but ROK Tigers from South Korea were also over there for a while as well as some ROK Marines. They all acquitted themselves admirably. In fact just about everyone did...except the ARVN's, but let's not go down that booby-trapped trail.

[Sgt. Cav]

Originally Posted by scelli

The Aussies were/are fantastic troops and definitely three bricks shy of a load at times, just like the Brits. Also: It isn't mentioned often but ROK Tigers from South Korea were also over there for a while as well as some ROK Marines. They all acquitted themselves admirably. In fact just about everyone did...except the ARVN's, but let's not go down that booby-trapped trail.

Don't forget the 9th White Horse Div. and the 2nd Marine, Blue Dragon, Brigade, had some interesting time with White Horse in 2 Corp, at Happy Valley .