Fn-Fal

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by scelli

In fact just about everyone did...except the ARVN's, but let's not go down that booby-trapped trail.

As we say in our family, "Let's not and say we did." :)

[Uncle Jaque]

Re. the photo of the Squad Designated Marksman (I assume) standing with the souped up M-14, which I can't reproduce here because I don't have 15 posts yet... ;

As I'm sure you know, the use of cross-sticks as a forearm support in the standing position goes way back to the era of the matchlock!

It's interesting to see our modern military still using such an old trick in conjunction with state of the art weapons systems.

I trained with the M-14 in '67 and was issued one in Korea in '68, occasionally using an accurized one competitively with the 8th Army AMTU for a while.

I'll take an M-14 into battle over a mouse-gun poodle-shootin' "Jammin' Jenny" any ol' day!

One advantage the FN has over the M-1/14 system is that you can clean it from the breech, which saves a lot of muzzle wear. Muzzle condition is very critical to accuracy, you know.

I opine that even the predecessor to the FAL, the FN-49 is a superior system in terms of engineering in that the straight magnesium alloy op rod is less prone to kinking or bending than the crooked "dogleg" type used in the M-1/14.
The SAFN 49 is described as having been one of the last of the wood and steel "Classical battle rifles".

The '49 falls short in it's fixed ("semi-detachable" - it won't hold rounds out of the rifle) magazine, and the gas adjustment sleeve is covered by the forward handguard making it difficult to adjust. A little porthole in the rear of the action when the cover is removed allows cleaning from the breech, although it takes a pretty long cleaning rod to make it from there to the muzzle end of the CUTTS compensator.

The FN-FAL may not look as lovely as the '49-er, but it's break open action and detachable 20 rd. mag makes it a whole lot more practical.

Another really interesting MBR of the same era is the Spanish CETME or German G-3, using a delayed roller-locked action.
I had one and liked the way it handled and tweaked it so that it ran quite reliably, but it wouldn't group within a minute of swill bucket (it was a Century re-build) so I sold it.

Pity, as we hear that some of them are outstandingly accurate.

One memento of Israel which I cherish is my old IDF K-98 Mauser 7.62X51mm FN with the IDF Star crest stamped prominently into the receiver ring. I got it as a Century fixer-upper and nursed it back to shooting condition. Rather surprisingly, it shoots a whole lot better than it looks!

Are any of you old enough to remember lugging one of those old relics around in the line of IDF duty?

[panzermk2]

The sighting system on an FN FAl is just as good if not better then the M-14. It's sliding aperture gives a greater range and is easy to slide in 100 meter increments. Also the front site post can be adjusted up and down.

It also has a gas system the is very easy to adjust so that the rifle will function no matter what.

It is a damn long rifle though. In northern Ireland in the 70's British Soldiers developed a technic of placing the shoulder stock above/over their shoulders to make it easier in an urban environment.

The bolt cycles smoother and you don't have to worry about loosing your thumb.

I am very familiar with them and currently own a Commonwealth FAL a L1A1. Mine is a Africanized version with the sand cut bolt. this version also came with the folding cocking handle.

Check out this forum.
Edited










You can see the gas piston in this pic.


Here is the bolt with the sand cuts.


I added a quad rail and rail cover a few months ago.

[Sgt. Cav]

panzermk2, the sights on a Fn Fal are only adjustable to 600 meters, a M-14 can be adjusted to 1,100 meters, and are fully user adjustable for windage, and elevation, something the Fn Fal is not.

[Little Rock]

Shalom.

This is an interesting thread. Regarding the sights on the FN FAL and the very similar British L1 A1 rifles and I assume also the Israeli version. These were sliding ramp sights with an aperture. The Canadian C1 A1 FN rifle had a flip up rotating disc rear sight with different size apertures in the disk. When the sight was folded down it still had an aperture "Battle Sight" similar to other FN FAL rifles. The Canadian C1 A1 FN rifle also had a half receiver cover with a stripper clip guide for the five round stripper clips the 7.62 Nato rounds came on. This was similar to the guide on the Lee-Enfield rifles. A soldier could reload the magazine via this charging guide with the magazine in place in the receiver and the breech block in the rear position. I was wondering how this rear sight compared to other FN FAL's?

When I acquired my surplus L1 A1 I converted it to C1 A1 configuration with the rear disc sights and the half receiver cover with the stripper clip guide on it.

I really wish I had never sold my converted L1A1 and the accessories I had for it such as the magazine loading charger and the thirty round magazines designed for the heavy barrel C2 FN.

Cheers from Little Rock

[galil4x4]

The US should have adopted the FAL instead of the M-14. Politics got in the way, as usual.

[dannytoro]

..........I used to have an Imbel parts gun. It was ok. Fairly accurate. Not as good as I had hoped. What really annoyed me was the gun was just insanely cruel to the brass. No matter how much you fiddled with the gas system, it still dented brass badly. Luckily I sold it for $1200 and bought a DSA SA58 Hunter FAL in .260 Remington. Man it is a real hair splitter for a semi-auto gun. I've had 3 & 3/8" groups at 250 yards with it. So far with plain vanilla Remington 140 grain PSP's I routinely get 1.25" groups at 100 yards. Perfect for hunting most game. I've had under an inch groups with Black Hills 139 grain Lapua's. But those are very pricey.......And they did not feed so well either...

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by dannytoro

..........I used to have an Imbel parts gun. It was ok. Fairly accurate. Not as good as I had hoped. What really annoyed me was the gun was just insanely cruel to the brass. No matter how much you fiddled with the gas system, it still dented brass badly. Luckily I sold it for $1200 and bought a DSA SA58 Hunter FAL in .260 Remington. Man it is a real hair splitter for a semi-auto gun. I've had 3 & 3/8" groups at 250 yards with it. So far with plain vanilla Remington 140 grain PSP's I routinely get 1.25" groups at 100 yards. Perfect for hunting most game. I've had under an inch groups with Black Hills 139 grain Lapua's. But those are very pricey.......And they did not feed so well either...

You wanna know why that sucker is so accurate with .260? To my knowledge, the FAL was first designed to fire a .280 round not a 7.62/.308 round. Kinna hard to get away from doing better with a round close to what it was designed for isn't it?

The Stoner design was actually the exact opposite. Kinna hard to grasp with a ton of 5.56 chambered ones on the market isn't it?

But the first EVER Stoner design was the AR-10. The AR-10 was chambered for 7.62x51 NATO. Now when he heard they were looking for a lighter round to carry more ammo and make it easier to train people to shoot with, the 5.56x45 was born and Stoner shrunk down the design and rechambered her for the 5.56x45 NATO round. Thus the M16 was born.

But every .308 AR around is based on the old AR-10 but with improvements.

[dannytoro]

.......Well, I need to go ahead and get a set of dies in 260 Remington. I've been wanting to try the hornady 160gr. round nose. I understand that it's even effective on Moose at close range. It should be great for our feral hogs we have here. It's not uncommon to get 400-500 pounders here. I'm just not sure it will feed. Those long Lapua's 139's were pushing it, but those are long then the 160's too...

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by dannytoro

.......Well, I need to go ahead and get a set of dies in 260 Remington. I've been wanting to try the hornady 160gr. round nose. I understand that it's even effective on Moose at close range. It should be great for our feral hogs we have here. It's not uncommon to get 400-500 pounders here. I'm just not sure it will feed. Those long Lapua's 139's were pushing it, but those are long then the 160's too...

Yeah the added mass will dispurse more energy on contact so the feral hogs will feel it more when they get hit.

So is it the bullet length you're concerned with?

[dannytoro]

So is it the bullet length you're concerned with?

....Yes, pretty much. I had to single feed those long Laupa rounds. Actually, I think the chamber will be ok. I was hoping they would stack reliably from the magazine. I do not reload yet. What do they call it? Measuring the head space? When I fired the Blackhills/Lapua rounds, I just checked the bullet tip to make sure it was not hitting the lands. The bolt fully closed, and there were no marks, so I fired them. As I said, they went about .85" on five rounds at 100 yards. That was plenty good too me. But I'm thinking that big high sectional density160 grain bullet will be a great meat getting round at 2500-2600fps...Within 200 yards though......

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by dannytoro

....Yes, pretty much. I had to single feed those long Laupa rounds. Actually, I think the chamber will be ok. I was hoping they would stack reliably from the magazine. I do not reload yet. What do they call it? Measuring the head space? When I fired the Blackhills/Lapua rounds, I just checked the bullet tip to make sure it was not hitting the lands. The bolt fully closed, and there were no marks, so I fired them. As I said, they went about .85" on five rounds at 100 yards. That was plenty good too me. But I'm thinking that big high sectional density160 grain bullet will be a great meat getting round at 2500-2600fps...Within 200 yards though......

Yeah I can see what you mean. You need a more nose-heavy round. Try a simple 160 grain soft point. The round will have more mass in the nose and less over all length plus the bonus of unadulterated spread. It'll be a .260 but have the hole of a .40 or .50 cal. The meat will definitely feel that one and it'll be easier to load.

Sometimes I think people forget that a soft point by nature will spread farther than a wife that's an ex-gymnast. :)

[TwoStrike]

Got a build for each in progress. Hoping that milling the c.a. 80% billet will give me more accuracy than the company's finished product was known for. Will let you know how they come out.