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  #1  
Old 05-06-2009, 02:56 PM
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Default "Israel would seek forgiveness, not permission" from U.S. on hitting Iran

"Israel would seek forgiveness, not permission" from U.S. on hitting Iran

http://www.reuters.com/article/world...54523R20090506
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/025990.php#respond


Let's hope so. Because Israel sure isn't going to get permission from Obama. The freedom of the world may depend upon Israel's ability to act against the genocidal mullahs before they themselves strike.

"Israel would inform, not ask U.S. before hitting Iran," by Dan Williams for Reuters, May 6

TEL AVIV (Reuters) - When he first got word of Israel's sneak attack on the Iraqi atomic reactor in 1981, U.S. President Ronald Reagan privately shrugged it off, telling his national security adviser: "Boys will be boys!"
Would Barack Obama be so sanguine if today's Israelis made good on years of threats and bombed Iran's nuclear facilities, yanking the United States into an unprecedented Middle East eruption that could dash his goal of easing regional tensions through revived and redoubled U.S. outreach?

For that matter, would Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu readily take on Iran alone, given his country's limited firepower and the risk of stirring up a backlash against the Jewish state among war-weary, budget-strapped Americans?

Obama is no Reagan. And many experts believe the two allies are now so enmeshed in strategic ties -- with dialogue at the highest level of government and military -- that complete Israeli autonomy on a major issue like Iran is notional only.

So while no one questions Israel's willingness to attack should it deem U.S.-led talks on curbing Iranian uranium enrichment a dead end, such strikes would almost certainly entail at least last-minute coordination with Washington.

Israel would want to ensure that its jets would not be shot down by accident if overflying U.S.-occupied Iraq, and to give Americans in the Gulf forewarning of possible Iranian reprisals.

"Whether or not Israel got the green light from Washington to attack Iran is almost immaterial, as everybody in the region would believe that the U.S. was complicit," said Karim Sadjadpour of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

One U.S. diplomat envisaged Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak telephoning Pentagon chief Robert Gates, unannounced, "to give a heads-up and explain" once the mission were under way.

Gates and the U.S. military brass have voiced distaste for pre-emptive strikes on Iran, which says its uranium enrichment is for legitimate electricity production, not weapons. But their public comments have acknowledged that Israel could break rank.

"I do not doubt that Israel will do what it thinks it needs to do, regardless of whether the U.S. approves," said Mark Fitzpatrick, non-proliferation expert at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.

"Israel would seek forgiveness, not permission." [...]

Fitzpatrick said U.S. public opinion would swing in Israel's favor "if Iran is stopped from achieving a nuclear weapons capability, and the price is not too great in terms of attacks on American citizens and facilities."

But Obama would punish Israel anyway:

Obama's punitive options could, in theory, include cutting the billions in U.S. defense aid and loan guarantees to Israel, though he would face opposition in an Israel-friendly Congress.

Washington could also call for a nuclear-free Middle East as part of a regional peace drive, arguing that, with Iran neutralized and the Arab world mollified, Israel's own assumed atomic arsenal should no longer go unchecked.

O Reuters, the "Arab world" will never be mollified as long as Israel exists.
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  #2  
Old 05-06-2009, 04:05 PM
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It is always better to ask forgiveness than seek permission …

Children and married men know this well ...
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:45 AM
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It is unfortunate that Obama thinks that he can do anything he wants - just because the press is still infatuated with him. The press maybe giving him a free ride, but the Israeli government will not. Bibi Natanhayu is not Olmert. And on this issue, both Bibi and Ehud Barak are in lock step. They are not going to sit around and wait for Obama's outreach to Iran to hand Iran a nuclear weapon.

One way or another, Iran's nuclear program is going down. I can only pray that the US will not abandon its one true ally in the Middle East when that happens.
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:43 AM
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in the article they talked about the US shooting down Israeli aircraft down, i was just wondering if American solders are the robots they seem to be, and would shoot down an Israeli aircraft?
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelory View Post
in the article they talked about the US shooting down Israeli aircraft down, i was just wondering if American solders are the robots they seem to be, and would shoot down an Israeli aircraft?

Interesting evaluation of following orders.

You do realize that the IAF trains to shoot down civilian aircraft under certain circumstances. If I give the order, I expect my men to execute.
Let HaShem deal with me, not my men.

I expect compliance, in what some would consider a "drone like" manner.
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Old 05-08-2009, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelory View Post
in the article they talked about the US shooting down Israeli aircraft down, i was just wondering if American solders are the robots they seem to be, and would shoot down an Israeli aircraft?
I too have no doubt that US planes would take action if so ordered. I also agree that it is not a question of a robotic response, but rather it is what those crews have been trained to do.
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Old 05-13-2009, 08:07 PM
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As a U.S. citizen and Born Again Christian who adamently supports
Israel, I'll say this only once: Israel does NOT NEED permission let alone
forgiveness, from Obama or anyone else to strike Iran! This is bullcrap!

They sure as blazes don't need the nit-wit United Nations -aka, United
NOTHING's- to do their job! (By the way, is everyone in here aware that
Israel does NOT get to have have a vote at the U.N. about anything?)

Israel's actions are a complete act of moral self-defense just
as they struck the Iraqi nuclear facility back on 8 June 1981. I
applauded Israel then, and once more, I'll do it again!! So, to the
IDF, go in there and kick some Iranian ass into the ground!

->Yes, we Christian's will use "language" from time to time in expressing
our contempt for politics, yours or ours, when it comes to decisions made
by nit-wit bureaucrats, instead of leaving it entirely to the Generals!!
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Last edited by LEAA-SOFR; 05-13-2009 at 08:10 PM..
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GB_FXST View Post
I too have no doubt that US planes would take action if so ordered. I also agree that it is not a question of a robotic response, but rather it is what those crews have been trained to do.
Agreed. The US military follows orders from duly constituted authority, unless an order is clearly illegal. Defending Iraqi airspace is not illegal.

I suggest that Israel consider a flight path not over Iraq.
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:41 AM
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It’s good if Israel is preparing itself for an attack on Iran. Iran’s undeterred progress in their nuclear program is an obvious threat to Israel, who I think is doing the right thing by gearing up for a military attack. Israel cannot ignore Iran’s call for complete destruction of Israel.
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafi View Post
Interesting evaluation of following orders.

You do realize that the IAF trains to shoot down civilian aircraft under certain circumstances. If I give the order, I expect my men to execute.
Let HaShem deal with me, not my men.

I expect compliance, in what some would consider a "drone like" manner.
Excellent response, Rafi!

It would behoove poster shelory to explain and justify that offensive and derogatory "robot" comment regarding American troops. Just took him down a few pegs over in this thread below and will do so again should he prove to be the masochistic type:

http://www.israelmilitary.net/showpost.php?p=46009&postcount=55
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpacemanSpiff View Post
Agreed. The US military follows orders from duly constituted authority, unless an order is clearly illegal. Defending Iraqi airspace is not illegal.

I suggest that Israel consider a flight path not over Iraq.
This response (as well as the responses of Rafi, LEAA-SOFR and GB_FXST) presents a mature understanding of just one of the difficulties those in the armed forces face every day, especially when compared with obnoxious rhetoric put up by posters who haven't the slightest idea what they're babbling about.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:50 PM
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It would not surprise me greatly if Israel and Saudia Arabia reached some sort of a tacit arrangement where IAF aircraft could transit Saudia Arabia to avoid Iraqi airspace on their way in and out of Iran. This could even include an out of the way "emergency airstrip" to refuel/rearm IAF aircraft ingressing and egressing Iran. There are too many reasons for Saudia Arabia to want an Iranian weapons program stopped to ignore this possibility.
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mover2 View Post
It would not surprise me greatly if Israel and Saudia Arabia reached some sort of a tacit arrangement where IAF aircraft could transit Saudia Arabia to avoid Iraqi airspace on their way in and out of Iran. This could even include an out of the way "emergency airstrip" to refuel/rearm IAF aircraft ingressing and egressing Iran. There are too many reasons for Saudia Arabia to want an Iranian weapons program stopped to ignore this possibility.
I agree 100% that this is a real possibility (not saying its a certainty, but . . .)

Saudi Arabia, despite being Wahabist and a de facto enemy of Israel, understands the deadly serious consequences that would result were Iran to dominate the Persian Gulf.
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Old 05-28-2009, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpacemanSpiff View Post
I agree 100% that this is a real possibility (not saying its a certainty, but . . .)

Saudi Arabia, despite being Wahabist and a de facto enemy of Israel, understands the deadly serious consequences that would result were Iran to dominate the Persian Gulf.
I too agree with this assessment. Stranger things have happened in the past, and politics makes for strange bedfellows.
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:33 PM
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It would be in Israel's best interest to request the American IFF codes, just before a series of airstrikes. The Americans, are going to need at least three days, to coordinate with the local commands. Israel will have to inform the U.S. Love him or hate him, it is not a good idea, for Israel to make BHO look like a fool - especially with his inner-circle cabinet members. Israel also needs the U.S., to keep the UN dogs off of it's own front door. That would be the best Israel could hope to obtain from BHO's administration.

Yes, American pilots will follow orders given to them. If not, they will face a court-martial. I doubt the President would order the military, to engage Israeli airplanes. He would face enormous domestic fallout in congress with that decision. If that is the case, American planes will unfortunately also be shot down. That would be a terrible political quaqmire for both countries.

My guess, is that both the USAF and Navy aviation would stand down, at the time of the initial attacks. I would assume both the Israeli ingress and egress routes would be avoided ?


My question,

Does Israel have enough airplanes with the legs to reach the target, and have a reasonable warload to accomplish the missions ? Does the pylon carry gas or ordnance ? Will two pylons with bombs be enough ? Can the F-16I carry a reasonable warload to the target ? No doubt, the few tankers will have to partially penetrate with the strike packages towards and or from the target.

As far as mullah retaliation ?

The domestic mullah refineries are vulnerable to attack. As it is, the mullahs do not have enough indigenous refineries to meet domestic demand. If they retaliate (and they most likely will), Israel should immediately destroy the refineries. This includes significant attacks from either Hezbollah, Syria, and or Hamas - the mullah proxies.
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GB_FXST View Post
I too agree with this assessment. Stranger things have happened in the past, and politics makes for strange bedfellows.

The Gulf States will obtain special weapons, just after the first test-detonations.

The Gulf States will pool their money together, and procure a special weapons program together - asap.

I believe they are just waiting for the mullahs to test a bomb. That will justify a large scale program. No doubt Western European democracies will sympathize with their plight. With that, they will be happy to sell them the facilities to produce the special weapons.
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Old 06-10-2009, 02:04 AM
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Hmmm, Being an old soldier and a follower of General Sun Tsu in the
Art of War, and knowing that Israel has one of the worlds best
intelligence services, I think I would follow the Generals thinking
and look at both Iran and obama as only components of a total war,
which must be won by the Israelies, by what ever means for their own
survival and longevity.

Might it not be in the best interests to take a good look at the history
behind obama, clear back to his birth, as this man in reality is not a
friend, and speaks from both side of his mouth, and only for his own
benefit. all else be damned.
This war must be fought as a total war, to include all aspects of the
agressors existance.

obamabo has been very busy and is spending a great deal of money to
protect and conceal his past. Might it not be a wise thing to
accomplish, to have a bit of leverage to use when dealing with this
clown. He cannot stand personal scrutiny, or critizem, and becomes
unstable when this is applied.

I do believe putting the intelligence services to work might yeild good
results.

Have a great day, and by the way, there are a whole lot of us prior
service US military who support Israel all the way.
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Old 06-10-2009, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelory View Post
in the article they talked about the US shooting down Israeli aircraft down, i was just wondering if American solders are the robots they seem to be, and would shoot down an Israeli aircraft?
If Israel went lone ranger through American patrolled airspace the commanders wouldnt even know where the jets came from as their FIFO would not be synced with the American codes.
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Old 06-10-2009, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking03A View Post
Hmmm, Being an old soldier and a follower of General Sun Tsu in the
Art of War, and knowing that Israel has one of the worlds best
intelligence services, I think I would follow the Generals thinking
and look at both Iran and obama as only components of a total war,
which must be won by the Israelies, by what ever means for their own
survival and longevity.

Might it not be in the best interests to take a good look at the history
behind obama, clear back to his birth, as this man in reality is not a
friend, and speaks from both side of his mouth, and only for his own
benefit. all else be damned.
This war must be fought as a total war, to include all aspects of the
agressors existance.

obamabo has been very busy and is spending a great deal of money to
protect and conceal his past. Might it not be a wise thing to
accomplish, to have a bit of leverage to use when dealing with this
clown. He cannot stand personal scrutiny, or critizem, and becomes
unstable when this is applied.

I do believe putting the intelligence services to work might yeild good
results.

Have a great day, and by the way, there are a whole lot of us prior
service US military who support Israel all the way.
I know many active duty US military that still would support Israel all the way.
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