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  #1  
Old 02-09-2012, 03:32 AM
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Jacobtess Jacobtess is offline
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Question הבעיה

אאאאז*הגעתי*למצב*שממנה*נראה*לי*שא"א*להשתחרר.*אני*ס דודנט*מאוד*טוב*ואם*אני*ממשיך*בדרך*הזאת,*אולי*אכנס* לקולג*ענק*כאן*איפה*שנולדתי*באמריקה.*ההחלטה*שאני*חי יב*לעשות*היא*אם*אני*רוצה*להמשיך*את*החיים*שלי*כאן,* "הדרך"*שדברתי*על*קודם,*או*שאעשה*עליה,*תתגיס*לצבא,* וב"ה*אלמד*בטכניון.*אם*אני*אשאר*באמריקה*לקולג,*לא*י היה*לי*חשק*(או*סיכוי)*לעלות*כי*יהיה*לי*עבודה*ואולי *אתחתן*פה,*רק*השם*יודע.*זה*עוד*הוסיף*על*הספק*שלי*כ אשר*ישראלים*כל*הזמן*חושבים*שאמריקה*היא*המקום*הכי*ט ובה*בעולם*ומתלוננים*על*המצב*הכלכלי*בארץ.*נראה*לי*ש כמעט*כל*הישראלים*רוצים*לרדת*לאמריקה*כאילו*"לעשות*א ת*זה*"ביג*טים"".*והחברים*הישראלים*שלי*בביהס'*אומרי ם*שרוב*מהחיילים*בצבא*מענשים*סתם*כי*לא*אכפט*להם*על* החיים*כאשר*מגיעים*לצבא.*אז*האם*יש*לך*עצה?*

Sidenote: Rafi, or any others who understand, how was my hebrew? I'm a decent speaker as well.

For those who understand my dilemma, have you any advice?

P.S. I actually adressed this to some of my friends in Israel, hence the grammatical references like "lecha" and not "lachem"
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"לֹא עָלֶיךָ הַמְּלָאכָה לִגְמוֹר וְלֹא אַתָּה בֶן חוֹרִין לִבָּטֵל מִמֶּנָּה"
--Pirkei Avot 2:21
"I don't play accurately - any one can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression."
- Oscar Wilde, The Importance of Being Earnest
"The end of all things; all has been said: Fear G-d, and obey his commandments for that is the whole [duty] of man"-- Ecclesiastes
"The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters!"--Dirtdiver, The Unit
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  #2  
Old 02-09-2012, 03:32 AM
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What the heck, why are there asterisks...?
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"לֹא עָלֶיךָ הַמְּלָאכָה לִגְמוֹר וְלֹא אַתָּה בֶן חוֹרִין לִבָּטֵל מִמֶּנָּה"
--Pirkei Avot 2:21
"I don't play accurately - any one can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression."
- Oscar Wilde, The Importance of Being Earnest
"The end of all things; all has been said: Fear G-d, and obey his commandments for that is the whole [duty] of man"-- Ecclesiastes
"The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters!"--Dirtdiver, The Unit
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  #3  
Old 02-09-2012, 03:13 PM
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rafi rafi is offline
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Good morning.

During your time here on the board you have not really seen any posts in hebrew because this is an english only board. The majority, the vast majority, of posters do not speak nor read hebrew.

I understood clearly your questions, very similar to what you wrote me privately before. That is a good thing. I could read it. I would rate it at around 5th or 6th grade grammar and spelling, too much english and idiomatic phrases not used by Israelis. But it was a tremendous indication that once you are living in the society, the corrections can flow easily.

Every person in Israel is not looking for a ticket to America, nor is every soldier contemplating suicide. I am never certain why these types of things are spread around communities that would otherwise be expected to be stronger supporters of Israel.

As we discussed, every year of not making aliyah once you are old enough to, diminishes the chances of actually ever doing it.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:56 AM
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Good afternoon to you as well! 5th and 6th grade, oh dear, am I really that terrible?

Anyways, my chavruta (or chavrusa as you may say) offered a re-freshening perspective about Israelis who seem so eager to leave and come to America; the first reason being that "the grass is always greener on the other side" and the second being the primary fact that Israel tends to be more of a land for the spiritual-minded and less so for those chasing capital, power, and/or materialism.

It satisfied me somewhat, yet nothing can be for sure. Anyways, what would you recommend to improve my Hebrew, if it's as atrocious as you claim it is? I'm incorporating time each day for a "Hebrew activity" (on top of 4-5 quasi-Hebrew classes in school already) where I'm reading various books in Hebrew, typing in Hebrew, or watching TV shows on mako. (The Israeli Cash Cab is hilarious, by the way).

But I'll leave it to G-d beyond that. Thanks for the reiteration and taking the time to read out my Hebrew. I truly appreciate it. Layla tov!
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"לֹא עָלֶיךָ הַמְּלָאכָה לִגְמוֹר וְלֹא אַתָּה בֶן חוֹרִין לִבָּטֵל מִמֶּנָּה"
--Pirkei Avot 2:21
"I don't play accurately - any one can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression."
- Oscar Wilde, The Importance of Being Earnest
"The end of all things; all has been said: Fear G-d, and obey his commandments for that is the whole [duty] of man"-- Ecclesiastes
"The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters!"--Dirtdiver, The Unit
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  #5  
Old 02-10-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobtess View Post
Good afternoon to you as well! 5th and 6th grade, oh dear, am I really that terrible?

Anyways, my chavruta (or chavrusa as you may say) offered a re-freshening perspective about Israelis who seem so eager to leave and come to America; the first reason being that "the grass is always greener on the other side" and the second being the primary fact that Israel tends to be more of a land for the spiritual-minded and less so for those chasing capital, power, and/or materialism.

It satisfied me somewhat, yet nothing can be for sure. Anyways, what would you recommend to improve my Hebrew, if it's as atrocious as you claim it is? I'm incorporating time each day for a "Hebrew activity" (on top of 4-5 quasi-Hebrew classes in school already) where I'm reading various books in Hebrew, typing in Hebrew, or watching TV shows on mako. (The Israeli Cash Cab is hilarious, by the way).

But I'll leave it to G-d beyond that. Thanks for the reiteration and taking the time to read out my Hebrew. I truly appreciate it. Layla tov!
Your hebrew is fine. Being able to compose thoughts and relay them in a foreign language is quite hard. Fifth or Sixth grade level, having never lived there for any extended period is a tremendous foundation. Do not consider it an insult. As I said you lose points for idiomatic phrases that would clearly identify you as someone learning hebrew not on the streets of Israel.

As to idea that Israel is not for entrepeneurs, I 100% reject that opinion. Look to Kiryat Atidim (look it up) as one example of one of the strongest R&D centers in the world. The meteoric growth of IBM alone is remarkble. Used any thumb drives lately? yup, invented in Israel.

Hebrew ideas? Forst and foremost, http://www.iba.org.il/media/
Learn the speed, rhythm and street use of hebrew. It won't be spoken hebrew that will be the greatest challenge, reading and writing are usually the toughest. Maariv, Yidiot Achronot are both available on the web as well. Lashon Hakodesh and Ivrit are two totally different concepts.
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  #6  
Old 02-10-2012, 07:29 PM
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Understood. Thanks a ton for the responses. Shabbat Shalom!
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"לֹא עָלֶיךָ הַמְּלָאכָה לִגְמוֹר וְלֹא אַתָּה בֶן חוֹרִין לִבָּטֵל מִמֶּנָּה"
--Pirkei Avot 2:21
"I don't play accurately - any one can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression."
- Oscar Wilde, The Importance of Being Earnest
"The end of all things; all has been said: Fear G-d, and obey his commandments for that is the whole [duty] of man"-- Ecclesiastes
"The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters!"--Dirtdiver, The Unit
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  #7  
Old 02-11-2012, 06:11 AM
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David of Galilee David of Galilee is offline
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Yes, having also read the Hebrew, I will comment briefly. Most people where I live (Haifa) don't even talk much about America aside from politics. Maybe 20-30 years ago, you might have heard of more people wanting opportunities abroad, possibly in America, for a few years. Many came back, and many didn't. But the idea that everyone here looks to America is not even slightly true. I have nothing insulting to say about America, but rather, something positive to say about Israel. We love our country, and even when we are critical of something here, it is in the family. Israel is a very different place from the US, and in my opinion we are growing more different. We have different origins, and we stand for different things, even if there are useful overlaps.

One thing is for certain: Ardent, practical, realistic, idealist, and intractable Zionist returnees from America do very well here. You've got to hit the ground running, and have unconditional faith that Israel is here for more than politics or prosperity (although we certainly have the possiblity of both!). Israel either gets under your skin, or it doesn't. I know many die-hard Israelis from America, rightist, leftist, religious, secular, who are here to stay because being Israeli is in their blood, so to speak. No regrets! Mostly, they came to stay forever.

As to Israel and the entrepreneurial spirit: I have worked in hi-tech here, and it is vibrant. The "idea" market here is superb. When I sit on the Haifa beach in summer, behind me are buildings with names like Google and Intel and Yahoo and IBM and Microsoft that suggest an excellent environment for innovation. MATAM hi-tech park is very big, and well-known. The game of small business start-ups impressing the giants (both Israeli and foreign) and getting bought-out for big money (the object), and developed into international products is great sport in Israel. Israel seems to be great for both spiritual and materal things, though we have our problems, to be sure. The English-language Israeli papers online can give a very skewed impression of actual daily life here. But newspapers world-wide are skewed. Ultimatley, knowing the real Israel happens on Diezengof street in T"A, or in the Hadar in Haifa, or the Ben Yehudah street mall in Jerusalem. For example, my neighbourhood loves Bibi Netanyahu, but you wouldn't know that from the pages of Ha'Aretz!

"העלייה היא לא בחירה ההגיונית - היא בחירה יהודית"

Last edited by David of Galilee; 02-11-2012 at 06:31 AM..
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:58 AM
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shalom david.
yes i agree with u. israel is very technologically advanced, this is because we take pride in our country's infrastructure and we work very hard for our country's prosperity.
having lived in new york in the states for 15 years in a sephardic jewish community i can say that many israelis from america have moved to israel and have been pleasantly suprised at the opportunity they had to further themselves in the land of our heritage.
as israelis we should feel immensely proud of our acheivements as a nation.
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Old 02-11-2012, 02:36 PM
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Ayala, I agree! True, I have never seen "easy" Aliyah, but I have seen lots of very successful Aliyah. Jews do not have to be naturalised--just claim their birthright as Israelis. If you feel like a foreigner, then you'll stay that way. If you feel your Israeliness, you'll do much more than just survive. But all that aside, there is never a dull moment here, and somewhere between the balagan (confusions) and the fashla (disasters), we mostly have very good lives here. Successful Aliyah is not getting rich or having the perfect career, but waking up every morning thanking God for Israel and the privilege of living in this Land, warts and all.

Last edited by David of Galilee; 02-11-2012 at 02:39 PM..
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:15 PM
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that is quite true david. :). i last went to israel to visit my cousin yossi in december 2011, and i have to say i have never seen a more beautiful and respectful country.
i was treated like a complete princess, the Israeli locals were so polite and always willing to help me out.
i met soldiers from the israeli army when i went to visit friends in settlements in the west bank and they were simply quite wonderful, protecting me from those nasty arabs who threw stones at us.
i love this country and hope to one day move there.
i was also given roses by one of the soldiers when i cooked and bought him food in the next neighbourhood.
beautiful memories x
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