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  #1  
Old 01-13-2013, 11:07 PM
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Default Defence chiefs prepare new plans to defend Falkland Islands

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...d-Islands.html
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:08 PM
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How Britian's current military forces compare to 1982:
1982
Armed Forces Personnel: 320,000
Ships: 2 Carriers, 2 Assault ships, 32 Submarines, 15 Destroyers, 46 Frigates, 1 Ice Patrol Ship, 12 Hydrographic survey ships, 15 Patrol ships/craft, 29 Minesweepers and minehunters, 45 Royal Fleet Auxiliary
Aircraft: 400 plus

2013
Armed Forces personnel:160,000
Ships: 0 Carriers, 9 Submarines, 7 Destroyers, 13 Frigates, 2 Assault/Helicopter Carriers, 2 Assault/Command Ships, 3 RFA Landing Ships, 3 Survey ships, 1 Ice Patrol Ship, 4 Patrol Ships, 15 Minehunters, 10 Royal Fleet Auxiliary
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At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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  #3  
Old 01-14-2013, 09:28 PM
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I was reading an essay about the 82 war, Argentina worried as much about Chile as it did the UK. I wish The fine UK forces luck in the next one.. They have the ability but may not have the numbers.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:15 AM
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Montevideo, January 15th 2013 - 00:10 UTC



Thursday, November22nd2012 - 22:56 UTC Argentine navy short on spares and resources for training and maintenance

The Argentine navy is not going through one of its great moments, not only because of the impounded flagship ARA Libertad in Ghana and the ARA Espora stranded in South Africa waiting for spares. The rest of the fleet is suffering the consequences of years of lack of maintenance and training with corvettes, destroyers and even submarines involved in mechanical and conducting incidents.





ARA Robinson one of the few operational corvettes
Icebreaker Admiral Irizar still has to come back from the 2007 fire


The corvettes ARA Spiro and ARA Gomez Roca and the destroyer Argentina experienced different breakdowns attributed to lack of maintenance and human error, according to sources from the Defence Committee of the Argentine Lower House.

Apparently naval experts believe that “the absence of conflict hypothesis and a scarce budget have led to a very week patrolling of the 200 miles economic exclusive zone, which impedes an active combat of illegal fishing”.

Three corvettes are deployed for that task, corvettes Drummond, Granville and Guerrico, which “hardly sail because of lack of resources for operational expenses”, added the sources.

Likewise these incidents are happening when the 2013 budget approved for the Navy means vessels will have lesser sailing time to patrol maritime and fluvial spaces. “Resources for next year are sufficient for 161 sailing and practice days compared to 329 days only two years ago”.

“It is clearly insufficient for the Navy’s 15 vessels that are currently on condition to operate” said lawmaker Julio Martinez from the opposition Radical party and member of the Defence Committee. Proper training demands at least 90 sailing days for each vessel, which means sufficient funds for “a period equivalent to 1.350 days sailing for the whole fleet”.

“The ARA Espora and the fellows on board would have avoided the bad moment they are going through in South Africa if the corvette Spiro, originally assigned for the Altasur naval exercise, had not suffered the accident of running into a sand bank when leaving Mar del Plata”, said Martinez. ARA Spiro has been on service since 1987 and was sent to the first Gulf War in 1990/91 by then president Carlos Menem.

Another vessel knocked out of action is the icebreaker Admiral Irizar when as a consequence of the 2007 fire in the engine room was virtually burnt down. The original timetable for her return has long gone by and now apparently she could be back towards the end of 2013. Over 100 million dollars have been spent on the vessel plus the cost of leasing the Russian icebreaker Vasily Golovnin for the annual three-month Antarctic campaigns at a monthly cost of 2 million dollars.

A similar situation is faced by the four destroyers: Almirante Brown, Heroína, La Argentina and Sarandí, with engine problems and they need spares, plus the fact all the ordnance has expired.

Of the six MEKO corvettes, ARA Parker and ARA Rosales are waiting for spares. ARA Gomez Roca and ARA Robinson are on duty for search and rescue operations, a duty sometimes passed on to the Coast Guard. Furthermore, two Fokker F-28s from the Navy are grounded since they have spares retained in Customs because of Argentine restrictions on imports.
However according to former Defence minister Horacio Jaunarena the situation is not different in the other services: the Mirage fighter-bombers are not flying since they are not safe enough for the pilots and in 2006 the Army informed then Defence minister Nilda Garré the force was in inferior conditions to neighbouring countries and thus “it was impossible to make compatible a common defence system in the region”.
Finally the submarine crews which operate from Mar del Plata need at least 190 days of immersion practice and in the last year only spent 19 hours submerged. Submarines Salta, Santa Cruz and San Juan have maintenance difficulties and “only few remember that in August 2010, Defence minister Nilda Garré announced Argentina was planning to build a nuclear submarine”, concluded lawmaker Martinez.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++


As you can see above the Argentinian Armed Forces are in a pathetic state, 'logistics' and 'training' win 'Wars', plus 'conscripts' are still a big part of the Argentinian Army.

All this Argentinian 'sabre rattling' 'is just that, Argentinian politicians are just using the 'Falklands' to divert attention away from their pathetic economical state.

If push comes to shove all the British have to do is put a couple of SSN, plus a couple of D45's and F23's, then fly in a squadron of Typhoons and Tornado's, and a battalion of Paratroops,this plus what England already has on the Falklands, it would be all over before it even started.

While numerically the British Armed Forces is woefully inadequate, technically they are so far in front of Argentina Armed Forces, it would be a turkey shoot.

Last edited by WABA; 01-15-2013 at 12:40 AM..
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  #5  
Old 01-15-2013, 02:26 AM
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Yes, I did not realize they were in such deplorable state. You are certainly correct in saying the facts are mere Sabre rattling.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:47 AM
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The problem is not Argentines taking Falklands, Defence experts agree they are in no position to do so.

Thing is, Britain is in no condition to take Falklands back should they be conquered, granted, this is quite impossible right now but with further defence cuts being outlined, it will be a worry in a couple of decades.
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At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:18 PM
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I doubt the bankrupt Argentinians would try an expensive losing campaign... The are enough smart military generals to know they had a much better military comparably the last time they tried and failed...
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garpk View Post
I doubt the bankrupt Argentinians would try an expensive losing campaign... The are enough smart military generals to know they had a much better military comparably the last time they tried and failed...
You're missing the point, the ideal force level needs to be enough not just to stall Argentinans but to re-take the Island in case of any unforseeable future scenario.

Obama has shifted official support from UK to Argentina on the issue in case you didn't notice.
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At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:19 AM
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I detest the current government of Argentina. I think the president is a pathetic Chavez copy cat who cannot recognize failed policies if she was hit in the face with it. That being said, I believe Argentina has a legitimate historical claim to the Islands... Why should we care if in a decade or two Britian losses the islands either politically or militarily??? Neither Argentina nor Britian is a reliable Israel ally so why get involved when we have no bone in thus fight...
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  #10  
Old 01-25-2013, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garpk View Post
I detest the current government of Argentina. I think the president is a pathetic Chavez copy cat who cannot recognize failed policies if she was hit in the face with it. That being said, I believe Argentina has a legitimate historical claim to the Islands... Why should we care if in a decade or two Britian losses the islands either politically or militarily??? Neither Argentina nor Britian is a reliable Israel ally so why get involved when we have no bone in thus fight...
Argentina has as much claim to Falklands as Somalia. Falklands has never been inhabited by Argentinans. Do brush up on your history and refer to this thread - http://www.israelmilitary.net/showthread.php?t=18643
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At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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  #11  
Old 02-03-2013, 10:30 PM
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Default Argentina Rejects UK Proposal To Discuss Falklands With Islanders

http://www.eurasiareview.com/0102201...=Yahoo%21+Mail

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The UK Foreign Office said it was “massively disappointed” with the Argentine decision and said it would be “unthinkable” not to include the islanders.

They added that the result of a referendum on the future sovereignty of the islands due to be held in March will demonstrate that the islanders wish to remain part of the UK.
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At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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  #12  
Old 02-04-2013, 07:21 AM
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I don't have any ambivalence about Argentina--it is a chronically misrun republic that by virtue of its land and natural wealth, and even level of education, should have been a world power a long time ago. Most Jews from Argentina are now in Israel, where they have blossomed in many professions.

As for the Brits, I am ambivalent. They did much to foster the rebirth of Israel, yet they also then did much to prevent that from happening. They chose to be the enemy of Israel, while we fought hard for them in both world wars. They have us great men like Churchill, Lloyd-George, Wingate, but also that "other" crowd who simply did not want a Jewish state, and who could not acknowledge Jews as a nationality.

I have lived in Britain (both Leeds, Yorkshire, England and Edinburgh, Scotland), vacationed many times in all corners, and just got back from another vacation in London. The New Zealand branch of my family (Vogels) were all London-based.

Yet I have no doubts that Britain as a nation will not be standing with us in any final battles. But then again, I do not believe any nation will. Until then, it is all Hudna, or "alliances for a time only" between and among all nations.

Britain is a cultural powerhouse. The founding idea of the US is four-square British, as is the language, the legal system, and the modified parliamentary government, the educational system (Anglo-Scottish with strong German influence later). I see a lot of good in Britain, and yet--and yet . . .
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  #13  
Old 02-04-2013, 08:24 AM
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Regardless, Falklands belongs to Britain both historically and as per wishes of the Islanders themselves.

Also, Barry's support to Argentina now is a slap in the face of Britain which has always supported USA to the fullest extent possible.
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At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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  #14  
Old 02-04-2013, 10:42 AM
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What's important is that the people of Falklands want to remain British. Probably always will. Britain's claim is colonial, and Britain herself has opted out of empire, so I'd say that the desire of the Falklanders is paramount here, and not an archaic Big-Power sense of psuedo-legal right of possession. Imperial force majeure was not a uniformly great way to expand a country's wealth and holdings, but then it is not a great way for Argentina to take a small island group who's people are happy being Brits, either. And as we all know, were never Argentinians.

A waste of national energy for Argentina to even fuss over the Falklands. Shouldn't they be busy making tins of Bully Beef for the Royal Navy, or something?
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:12 AM
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I disagree with the first point, the islands were not a settled entity taken by force and colonised, they were uninhabited before being settled by Europeans.
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At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:21 PM
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Yes, I know that. But Britain was once very acquisitive, and the Falklands are British by virtue of a very strong sense of imperial quest. Once uninhabited or not, they are not a natural geographical continuation of the island of Britain, and are the product of an empire now gone. But in any case, as Argentina has no claim whatsoever, the desire of the actual inhabitants is the most superior claim there is. That should be enough.

That said, Britain is not exactly maintaining the long range projection of naval power that was so important to its own history for so long. It can't expect to fly sailors to Montevideo on British Air, and then ask the Uruguayan coastguard to ferry them out to the Falklands for a haulage fee.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:03 PM
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Nothing wrong with Imperial quest Rather the Brits did it, after all the Spanish "colonies" had their entire native cultures wiped out. Morality of the time and region etc. etc.
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At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:01 AM
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I agree that I'd rather have the Brits than the Spaniards or Portuguese or French as colonial adventurers. It is so recent that they tried to scuttle the rebirth of Israel in their failed attempt at Holy Land colonialism, though, and we are reaping the sowings of Whitehall perfidy still to this day. Especially border changes made with France that were illegal under the terms of the mandate, which removed the Golan Heights, and giving away almost 70% of the mandate unilaterally to an emir not even from the region he was given.

Some of it was honest miscalculation, but some of it was very calculated and strongly anti-Semitic. It has cost us lives. And instead of owning up to the deceit and ineptitude and trying to fix some of the problems of their own making, the British government maintains a false sense of innocence, and acts outraged at Israeli defense. Maybe if they hadn't restricted Jewish entry, and held to the original sane borders promised to early Zionist leaders, we would have fewer problems.

So while I fully agree that Argentina has no claims whatsoever, and that the will of the islanders should prevail, I am not going to shed any tears at the expense and headache of maintaining Falklandshire 13,000 Km from London.

I love many things about Britain, but she did walk away from a lot of problems created by empire, even if there were many positive aspects of British influence as well. Here in Israel, however, that good is pretty much limited to football and chips, a few air fields, and improvements to Haifa port.

No one here will ever forget the imprisonment of Holocaust refugees on Cyprus, ultimately based on Britain's perceived increasing need for Arab oil for recovery after WWII. Churchill had much to say about all this double-dealing with the Jewish people by Whitehall, but in a nutshell, he felt that his nation backed the wrong horse for less than honourable reasons.

Let em have the Falklands, and by all means protect the islanders from Argentina, but Britain does not deserve a whole lot of sympathy and good will, which they never showed Israel, and still do not. This isn't a grudge, but rather a current state of affairs between Britain and Israel. Not that the Falklanders today should suffer for Britain's imperial past.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:46 AM
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Britain's division of possessions was calculated at that time on the premise that eventually Britain will get a chance to reconquer/extend influence in these lands again, it was not foreseen that these lands will become strong nations like Israel or India.

So it is wrong only if you come from a moral pov where colonialism is wrong, I don't see it that way, I see it as wrong now, not as a historical wrong.

Falklands is an integral part of Britain, its a matter of principle not logistics, you let one area go, eventually others will try to pull the same trick.

And I don't have any sympathy or particular goodwill towards Britain either, but logically I appreciate their claim and find Argentina's to be bogus.
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At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:36 AM
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Foreign Office comments on Argentine Foreign Minister meeting

Published:1 February 2013

Policy:Supporting the Falkland Islanders’ right to self-determination

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/f...nister-meeting

Quote:
Following Argentine Foreign Minister Timerman’s rejection of a meeting with the Foreign Secretary, William Hague, and representatives of the Falkland Islands Government, a Foreign Office spokesperson said:
We note that Mr Timerman has publicly rejected the Foreign Secretary’s offer of a meeting whilst he is in the UK. We have always said that we are open to discuss a wide range of issues that affect our two countries, including our respective interests as members of the United Nations Security Council.
However, it is clear from Mr Timerman’s plans in the UK that the Falkland Islands are already on his agenda. We remain concerned about the Argentine government’s behaviour towards the Falkland Islanders, so it is right and proper that they are involved in the part of the meeting that concerns the Islands. We have made that clear to the Argentine Government in recent exchanges, and the Foreign Secretary’s offer of a meeting on these terms still stands.
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It is absolutely true in war, were other things equal, that numbers, whether men, shells, bombs, etc, would be supreme. Yet it is also absolutely true that other things are never equal and can never be equal - Maj.Gen. J. F. C. Fuller

At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
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