Israel Military Forum

Welcome to the Israel Military Forum. You are currently viewing our Israel Forum as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, Image Forum and access our other features. By joining our Israel Military Forum you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so
Join Our Israel Community Today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Go Back   Israel Military Forum > Israel National security > Self Defense
Register FAQ Pictures Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Self Defense Martial arts, defending yourself, krav maga, firearms, weapons, survival, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-04-2012, 01:45 AM
Archangel's Avatar
Archangel Archangel is offline
Dragon
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
Archangel is on a distinguished road
Default A Horse of a Different Color

Figured you guys might like to see this. After trying to figure out which direction I wanted to go in with an AR lower I had built I decided to consolidate a lil bit on the different kinds of cartridges I use. Sifting through the web for about a month I found an upper at a price that was a good deal and I bought one. The upper is hand built and tested with imported ammo before being shipped to it's future owner.

Some specs on it.

Short Stroke Gas Piston

16 inch barrel

Semi Auto only

Magpul Enhanced aluminum trigger guard

Magpul MOE pistol grip

basic M4 style adjustable stock

Mil-spec buffer tube

A2 style flash hider

Compact A2 rear sight

Flip up front sight

extra power buffer spring

extra power hammer spring

Chambered for 7.62x39


__________________
If we do not realize that we are one nation under God we will be one nation gone under. - Ronald Wilson Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-04-2012, 11:28 PM
Bowcaster's Avatar
Bowcaster Bowcaster is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41
Bowcaster is on a distinguished road
Default

Looks awesome. Are you going to put any optics on it? I have to say though, I never understood why one would want to convert an AR to 7.62. The AR is a good rifle, but if you want 7.62x39 it seems much more practical to go with an AK.

Never shot a piston driven AR, how does it feel? Is there any difference in recoil because of the added weight?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-05-2012, 06:13 AM
Archangel's Avatar
Archangel Archangel is offline
Dragon
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
Archangel is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowcaster View Post
Looks awesome. Are you going to put any optics on it? I have to say though, I never understood why one would want to convert an AR to 7.62. The AR is a good rifle, but if you want 7.62x39 it seems much more practical to go with an AK.

Never shot a piston driven AR, how does it feel? Is there any difference in recoil because of the added weight?
The reasons I went with it being chambered in 7.62x39 is that it is a heavier hitting round than the 5.56x45 and unlike .300 Blackout (which I still have hope for) and the 6.8 SPC, the rounds are very common and plentiful.

Another reason is that I already have a Direct Impingement AR chambered for 5.56 and it performs very well. It will even shoot steel cased ammo no problems.

And, the final reason is that I already have an AK based rifle chambered for 7.62x39. :)

This AR was never converted. It was built from the start as both a gas piston design and as a 7.62x39 chambered upper. It has no differences in the Lower of a Semi-Auto only 5.56x45 AR.

Eventually I will go with an optic. Which one I am not certain yet.

As far as felt recoil? There is no noticeable difference. I've literally fired off multiple shots with the stock slamming into my shoulder and it didn't even hurt. I felt very confident in handling this rifle and it is a lot of fun knowing you're unloading a bigger round. The reciprocating mass of the short stroke system had no actual effect at all on me operating this rifle. The muzzle rise is pretty much a vertical 90 and minimum so I have been able to keep focus of the front sight, even at the top of the small amount of muzzle rise I have encountered.

It is also easy to clean. Aside from breaking down to clean the gas block and piston, it is very easy to clean. In 30 rounds you can't tell even with dirty ammo that you've fired it at all unless you look in the barrel from the chamber. You will get spent powder build-up in the receivers still but not near as much as you would with a DI AR. You can also use a shotgun disposable cleaning cloth and the connecting rod to clean the inside of your gas block, perfect fit. Just don't cut the cloth too short or you might want a .22 or a .177 jag to get the cloth back out.
__________________
If we do not realize that we are one nation under God we will be one nation gone under. - Ronald Wilson Reagan

Last edited by Archangel; 02-05-2012 at 06:16 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-05-2012, 06:46 PM
Americal's Avatar
Americal Americal is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 437
Americal is on a distinguished road
Default

Still playing with guns I see AA.Thats a find weapon you have pictured above. Just curious on how much it weighs? These days everything has alot to do with weight!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-05-2012, 08:52 PM
Archangel's Avatar
Archangel Archangel is offline
Dragon
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
Archangel is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americal View Post
Still playing with guns I see AA.Thats a find weapon you have pictured above. Just curious on how much it weighs? These days everything has alot to do with weight!
Always, it's a family thing, we have a tendency to wander toward things that are mechanically engineered or engineered in any way at all. My dad has three other brothers. One is an auto mechanic, the other is a Nautical engineer, and the other is a land-surveyor. My grandfather was a land-surveyor, and one of my uncles was a machinist.

I hear you on the weight. "Ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain."

This thing weighs more or less as much as your standard "flat top" AR carbine. I can carry this rifle around by the pistol grip and with a basic two point sling it should be a delight. This is a direct comparison to my Carbine DI AR chambered for 5.56 loaded up with a 30 round mag of steel cased imported 62 grain rounds vs the rifle above loaded with steel cased 122 grain Romanian surplus rounds.

Only thing I could see that could improve this rifle is a copy of the mag you see made of polymer with P-mag reliability. I have P-Mags. Once you grind the excess polymer off of the mags from the worn out molds they've not yet replaced yet, they work beautifully and according to one Marine, tested better in real life torture tests in almost every test than the USGI magazines.
__________________
If we do not realize that we are one nation under God we will be one nation gone under. - Ronald Wilson Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-05-2012, 09:42 PM
Americal's Avatar
Americal Americal is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 437
Americal is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
Always, it's a family thing, we have a tendency to wander toward things that are mechanically engineered or engineered in any way at all. My dad has three other brothers. One is an auto mechanic, the other is a Nautical engineer, and the other is a land-surveyor. My grandfather was a land-surveyor, and one of my uncles was a machinist.

I hear you on the weight. "Ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain."

This thing weighs more or less as much as your standard "flat top" AR carbine. I can carry this rifle around by the pistol grip and with a basic two point sling it should be a delight. This is a direct comparison to my Carbine DI AR chambered for 5.56 loaded up with a 30 round mag of steel cased imported 62 grain rounds vs the rifle above loaded with steel cased 122 grain Romanian surplus rounds.

Only thing I could see that could improve this rifle is a copy of the mag you see made of polymer with P-mag reliability. I have P-Mags. Once you grind the excess polymer off of the mags from the worn out molds they've not yet replaced yet, they work beautifully and according to one Marine, tested better in real life torture tests in almost every test than the USGI magazines.
Well then, there you go. Its in your blood and a big part of your make-up. Its good you understand about weight. It is a big issue for me now that I'm....lets say over 42 now. Anyway just wanted to compliment you on a fine looking weapon.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-06-2012, 03:36 PM
Archangel's Avatar
Archangel Archangel is offline
Dragon
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
Archangel is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americal View Post
Well then, there you go. Its in your blood and a big part of your make-up. Its good you understand about weight. It is a big issue for me now that I'm....lets say over 42 now. Anyway just wanted to compliment you on a fine looking weapon.
My dad is about 60 something, I understand what you mean. I help him a good deal with projects that he has trouble lifting.

Thanks for the compliment. What can I say, I like mechanical stuff. :)
__________________
If we do not realize that we are one nation under God we will be one nation gone under. - Ronald Wilson Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-06-2012, 06:12 PM
Paparock's Avatar
Paparock Paparock is offline
Dragon
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern California High Desert Mountains
Posts: 48,313
Paparock is on a distinguished road
Default AR Platform

I may break down and get an AR platform rifle though it will pain me to do so. Having suffered through bad experiences with the early versions I was issued; I keep hearing they have worked the bugs out of the “Black Mattel Toy gun”. If I do it will be a 7.62 NATO SASS model though as it comes closest to my old M21. I'm moving to the high desert close to 29 Palms Marine base in California and it would rain destruction on yotes (coyotes for the lay people) at some respectable range now that I'm losing my edge at 62. He,he. Good luck with your pick.
__________________
O Israel
The LORD bless you and keep you;
The LORD make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.

Asymmetric Warfare It’s not just for the “Other Guys”


Last edited by Paparock; 02-06-2012 at 06:14 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-06-2012, 07:18 PM
Archangel's Avatar
Archangel Archangel is offline
Dragon
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
Archangel is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paparock View Post
I may break down and get an AR platform rifle though it will pain me to do so. Having suffered through bad experiences with the early versions I was issued; I keep hearing they have worked the bugs out of the “Black Mattel Toy gun”. If I do it will be a 7.62 NATO SASS model though as it comes closest to my old M21. I'm moving to the high desert close to 29 Palms Marine base in California and it would rain destruction on yotes (coyotes for the lay people) at some respectable range now that I'm losing my edge at 62. He,he. Good luck with your pick.
Thanks. Yes I've been told it is a different monster all together (New ARs over old.)

The biggest change is that ARs are readily available with either Chrome plated (ala AK) or Melonited (Ala Glock) barrels, both of which rust does not like. You can also get a bolt carrier that has been either Chrome Plated or Nickel Boron coated to fight against rust as well. I prefer the Nickel Boron coating as it not only fights rust but it also has as super smooth surface to aid cycling the action during operation.

Also, POF makes an AR 308 upper in many lengths including 18 inches like the SASS. It is a Gas Piston upper, so it'll kill some of your cleaning time and likely help you enjoy your AR as it is not the DI upper that is based on the original M16s. For that matter, Addax Tactical may have one that is Gas Piston operated that you can slap onto a lower of your choice. PWS has one too but I'm not sure it's a free float hand guard. Not sure about Addax either but I know they build gas piston .308 uppers.
__________________
If we do not realize that we are one nation under God we will be one nation gone under. - Ronald Wilson Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:24 AM
odie072's Avatar
odie072 odie072 is offline
Retired
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,213
odie072 is on a distinguished road
Default

AA, what kind of accuracy are you getting out of this?? I am thinking of this type of build myself, since I've gotten rid of my AR and AK. Not looking for a tack-driver, just good accuracy.
Very nice AR, BTW!

Thanks,

odie

Edited to add;

Are the mags AK style or special AR mags??
__________________
That might of been the sad end of the story. But Nemo refused to give in without a fight. Ignoring his serious head wound, the 85 pound dog threw himself at the Vietcong guerrillas who had opened fire. Nemo's ferocious attack brought Thorneburg the time he needed to call in backup forces.

Although severely wounded, Nemo crawled to his master and covered him with his body.

Last edited by odie072; 02-21-2012 at 03:28 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-21-2012, 01:15 PM
Archangel's Avatar
Archangel Archangel is offline
Dragon
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
Archangel is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by odie072 View Post
AA, what kind of accuracy are you getting out of this?? I am thinking of this type of build myself, since I've gotten rid of my AR and AK. Not looking for a tack-driver, just good accuracy.
Very nice AR, BTW!

Thanks,

odie

Edited to add;

Are the mags AK style or special AR mags??
Thanks, I'll answer your question with this. You can hunt with this thing. I found out the front sight you see is not made for my gas block. It was made for the old gas blocks that are not on the same plane as the rail on the upper. They had another one that is made for a same plane gas block but I found another sight I liked better so I got that one.

Even then, the rifle shot very predictably when I figured out quite fast what was going on (shots going immediately into the dirt, all 6 shots confirmed that my laser bore sight did not lie to me.). I held the sight high and it started putting rounds on target. I've not had a chance to test my new sights but everything looked good to go when I laser bore sighted it to do an initial zeroing in. Naturally I'll zero her in for good with live rounds.

There is also a guy on youtube who has footage of wild hog hunting with his DI version of a 7.62x39 AR. He's also reported other wild hog kills with it too.

As for the magazines. These are AR mags made specially for the 7.62x39 round. They are made by Ammo Storage Components (ASC). They are made from the same tooling as the old C-Products mags for 7.62x39. ASC reportedly bought the tooling from C-products when C-products went under. As to if that is true, I dunno, but their mags work. :)

Word of advice though. Don't be surprised if a few rounds jam in the mags. Just tear down the mags, remove the follower, and spin the mag spring around where the wider curve in the spring, faces the nose of the bullets when you load the rounds in. It should work after that, I've been running tests.

You can also use AK mag springs with them but you lose 2 rounds in max ammo capacity. I wonder if Bushmaster took that approach (similar springs?) because their mags cost the same roughly but only hold 28 rounds.

ASC also makes 10 round mags in 7.62x39 that work very well. Those are straight mags because after the 10th round, ASC said they noticed you need the curvature you see in my pic, to keep the rounds from jamming in the mag.

Edit: New Pic with new front sight.

__________________
If we do not realize that we are one nation under God we will be one nation gone under. - Ronald Wilson Reagan

Last edited by Archangel; 02-21-2012 at 01:29 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-22-2012, 08:18 PM
Archangel's Avatar
Archangel Archangel is offline
Dragon
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
Archangel is on a distinguished road
Default

Update:

Finally was able to do testing with the new sight. BIG difference, in a good way. Rounds ON target. I was quite happily surprised with the continuous accuracy of this rifle. I didn't even have to dial the rear sight in, it was ready as it was.

I cycled through three 30 round mags non stop to test my mags out. Yup, spinning the spring around to spread the load of force evenly to the front of the follower works. All mags tested ok, though the third and final mag, the bolt was riding over the rounds and leaving the chamber empty, common symptom. Chances are, the non stop firing might have opened up the tolerances of the rifle a lil bit. Hard to tell. The barrel is cooling as I speak. My hands were shaking after I was done from all the firing but I couldn't tell because I was still putting the rounds on target. I had to create calm once or twice to get switched on but after that I was on it. These were the same Romanian surplus rounds as before and it was a lil windy outside. The white out I put on the tip of my front sight really helped to make sure the dark colors didn't blend into my front sight making it more difficult to aim. I'm still jacked with a smile on my face, great rifle. For hunting you should have zero problems with this thing.

As a side thought, with all the firing, my neighbors prolly wanna kill me now. lol :D
__________________
If we do not realize that we are one nation under God we will be one nation gone under. - Ronald Wilson Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-25-2012, 06:05 PM
odie072's Avatar
odie072 odie072 is offline
Retired
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,213
odie072 is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks AA, very informative as always. Probably gonna do a build like this in the future, when I do, may shoot you a pm with some questions. Thanks again and good shooting!

odie
__________________
That might of been the sad end of the story. But Nemo refused to give in without a fight. Ignoring his serious head wound, the 85 pound dog threw himself at the Vietcong guerrillas who had opened fire. Nemo's ferocious attack brought Thorneburg the time he needed to call in backup forces.

Although severely wounded, Nemo crawled to his master and covered him with his body.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-25-2012, 08:14 PM
Archangel's Avatar
Archangel Archangel is offline
Dragon
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
Archangel is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by odie072 View Post
Thanks AA, very informative as always. Probably gonna do a build like this in the future, when I do, may shoot you a pm with some questions. Thanks again and good shooting!

odie

No problem. I managed to gather more info about that last mag issue. The guy that test fired my upper and built it, he said he had a similar issue with the ASC mags and solved it with dry lubing the mags. The mag follower on a few mags were binding on him causing "ride over".

Upon further examination I could see what he was refering to. The followers look to be made of a similar polymer as the polymer used in Pmags. It was a pmag style situation except the symptoms were internal instead of dealing with a magwell, a flipped equation.

So I found the contact points in the mag while examining it's interaction with the mag body. Then I did some light grinding with a dremel and The follower moves better now, free movement through the mag body. This should solve my issues with these mags but I've not had the ability to test them yet. Given that I've already dumped 90 rounds testing three of five mags, I'm trying to give the neighbors a break. lol :D

Drop me a pm anytime, I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.
__________________
If we do not realize that we are one nation under God we will be one nation gone under. - Ronald Wilson Reagan

Last edited by Archangel; 02-25-2012 at 08:25 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-27-2013, 06:42 AM
scelli's Avatar
scelli scelli is offline
Super Moderator
Photobucket
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Texas via New York and the world
Posts: 1,973
scelli is on a distinguished road
Default

Somebody please put adeddynen out of his misery, huh? Yet another spammer jerk...and this one has porn on his pea brain!
__________________
The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters!

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-27-2013, 06:04 PM
Little Rock Little Rock is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 413
Little Rock is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scelli View Post
Somebody please put adeddynen out of his misery, huh? Yet another spammer jerk...and this one has porn on his pea brain!
Shalom.

I tried to report him but the contact function has been disabled. One of the admins will see those posts and quickly ban the cretin.

Cheers
__________________
"Next year in Jerusalem!"
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-30-2013, 10:31 PM
Archangel's Avatar
Archangel Archangel is offline
Dragon
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
Archangel is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks for being on top of it guys. My notifications are not exactly immediate.

I'll need to post some more pics as I have some new stuff. :)
__________________
If we do not realize that we are one nation under God we will be one nation gone under. - Ronald Wilson Reagan
Reply With Quote
Israel Forum
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Israel Military Forum