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  #41  
Old 07-18-2012, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ishmael View Post

There is no denying the British hated the Jewish nation for a number of reasons. GD never forgets! We may die and never see the punishment upon the wicked but it will happen!
There is no denying the hatred and actions of a no. of nations against Jews and other people also.

But as far as Falklands is concerned, looking at it from a neutral point of view with no favour for either Argentina or Britain, I believe it justiciabally belongs to Britain.
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  #42  
Old 07-18-2012, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Knaur View Post
Falklands is not a colony, it has never been independent, its not some sort of an independent nation that was conquered!

None of your business I don't understand why Americans elected Barry O to power, so there you have it.
The points made in your postings on this subject (particularly the last two above, which is what I was going to say but in a far less polite manner...) are all excellent, Knaur. Jolly good show!
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  #43  
Old 07-18-2012, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Knaur View Post
I can see where you are coming from wrt Britain, but that is a strange position considering what Argentina's past.
Yes, and no. I'm looking into the future a bit. With Britain's issue of Islamic immigration, what will the country look like 15+ years down the road? Eventually (due to birth rates), it will turn into an Islamic state, and even before that happens the actions of the British government will start to reflect what the growing population believes.

I've never heard of such issues with Argentina. I think they've improved a lot since their nazi hiding days.

Better to align yourself with nations that will still exist in their current form 15+ years down the road.
  #44  
Old 07-18-2012, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TheZohan View Post
Yes, and no. I'm looking into the future a bit. With Britain's issue of Islamic immigration, what will the country look like 15+ years down the road? Eventually (due to birth rates), it will turn into an Islamic state, and even before that happens the actions of the British government will start to reflect what the growing population believes.

I've never heard of such issues with Argentina. I think they've improved a lot since their nazi hiding days.

Better to align yourself with nations that will still exist in their current form 15+ years down the road.

Argentina recognizes Palestine statehood


Last Updated: Monday, December 6, 2010 | 6:46 PM ET The Associated Press
Argentina announced Monday it recognizes the Palestinian territories as a free and independent state within the 1967 borders, a step it said reflects frustration at the slow progress of peace talks with Israel.


Argentina's President Cristina Fernandez has informed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas of her country's decision to recognize Palestine as a free and independent state. (Fabrizio Bensch/Reuters)

President Cristina Fernandez informed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas of the decision, which follows a similar move by Brazil, Argentine Foreign Minister Hector Timerman said.

Argentina is "deeply frustrated" that the goals of the 1991 peace talks in Madrid and the Oslo Accords of 1993 still have not been reached, Timerman said.

"The time has come to recognize Palestine as a free and independent state," he said.

He stressed that Argentina also "ratifies its irrevocable position in favour of the right of Israel to be recognized by everyone and to live in peace and security within its borders."

Argentina has a deep interest in seeing Israelis and Palestinians agree to a deep and lasting peace in the Middle East, Timerman said.

"Argentina's decision to recognize the Palestine state is based in the desire of its authorities to favour the process of negotiation aimed at ending the conflict."

Following Brazil
Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad Malki rejoiced at Argentina's decision, which comes three days after Brazil's recognition. He told The Associated Press on Monday he expects Uruguay and Paraguay to recognize Palestinian statehood in the next few days, followed by Bolivia and Ecuador.

"It is really symbolic, but it is important because the more countries that recognize the Palestinian state, the more pressure this will put on countries that are hesitant and on the peace process. If Israel keeps refusing to recognize the Palestinian state when other countries do, this will make a difference," Malki said.

Timerman said "it's important to note that this Argentine recognition adds to that of more than a hundred states, and reflects a growing consensus in the international community about the status of Palestine and the general interest in achieving decisive advances in the peace process."

The Palestinian Authority opened a diplomatic mission in Buenos Aires in 1996, and in 2008 Argentina installed a representative in Ramallah, the West Bank. In November 2009, Abbas visited with Fernandez in Argentina.

Malki, who had met with Argentina's president to encourage recognition, said the authority has been focusing on Latin America.

"Other countries still have doubts and we are seeing how to convince them to recognize the Palestinian state," he said.

See original story here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...rritories.html
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  #45  
Old 07-18-2012, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by New Ron View Post
Argentina recognizes Palestine statehood
Guess he doesn't have to wait 15+ years to see what Argentina is going to look like, huh?
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  #46  
Old 07-18-2012, 03:20 PM
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Guess he doesn't have to wait 15+ years to see what Argentina is going to look like, huh?
Nope, lol.
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  #47  
Old 07-18-2012, 03:25 PM
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I've never heard of such issues with Argentina. I think they've improved a lot since their nazi hiding days.
What empirical proof do you offer for the fact pro-Israel factions such as the USA should dump one of their staunchest World War I/II and Cold War allies (despite Britain's many current troubles) in favor of aligning with Argentina other then groundless rhetoric you'd posted on this forum?
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  #48  
Old 07-18-2012, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by New Ron View Post
Nope, lol.
Many of us here are old enough to remember those "humorous" post cards and wall posters from the 1960's that showed Hitler standing up in his bullet-proof Mercedes saluting to an adoring throng of sycophants with the words

Greetings From Buenos Aries!

written in big, bold script plastered over the picture, right?
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Last edited by scelli; 07-18-2012 at 03:42 PM.. Reason: Typo
  #49  
Old 07-18-2012, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TheZohan View Post
The only reason I lean in Argentina's favor slightly...
Slightly favoring Argentina? A word of advice: Please stop backtracking when someone presents facts to contradict your conjecture as it's becoming increasingly annoying on this thread and some other threads as well. There is nothing slight whatsoever in the previous comment, so kindly just own up to that fact:

I hope Argentina takes the islands back. British colonialism needs to end.
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  #50  
Old 07-18-2012, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by scelli View Post
Slightly favoring Argentina? A word of advice: Please stop backtracking when someone presents facts to contradict your conjecture as it's becoming increasingly annoying on this thread and some other threads as well. There is nothing slight whatsoever in the previous comment, so kindly just own up to that fact:

I hope Argentina takes the islands back. British colonialism needs to end.
Please tell me what Britain has ever done for Israel?

- Occupied mandate palestine and prevented jews from immigrating as not to **** off the arabs
- Refused to bomb the concentration camps or the train tracks leading to them
- PM David Cameron's "prison camp" comment referring to gaza
- Failed to pull their weight during the 1956 Sinai Campaign
- Numerous anti semitic comments by British officials (more than I can list)
- etc. . .

http://terrortrendsbulletin.com/2012...vering-up-for-

Right now, Argentina's former president is facing trial over obstruction of justice for the 1994 Hezbollah bombing. Putting a former president to trial is a big deal, something the US has consistently failed to do when needed.

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-...ation-1.404549

In Shimon Peres' newest book about Ben Gurion, he lets out details of how Argentine police actually watched the abduction of Adolf Eichmann, and how they even had advanced knowledge of what Israel was wanting to do.

However, to be fair, Rafi Eitan disputes this. Though I would guess that Peres is right, as he was a public government official.
  #51  
Old 07-18-2012, 06:21 PM
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However, to be fair, Rafi Eitan disputes this. Though I would guess that Peres is right, as he was a public government official.
Yup....now there's a logical reason to believe him.

Rebutting a few of the other points:

1) The US was just as guilty for failing to bomb access routes in and out of the concentration camps during WWII, along with having instituted an immigration quota for Jews trying to escape Nazi persecution. Look it up.

2) In the past, a plethora of American individuals both in public office and private industry have been caught a myriad of times making anti-Semitic statements. Is that something new?

3) There are numerous incidences wherein English authorities carried out their difficult duties in a humane and honorable manner during British rule which ended in 1948.

4) Since you seem to harp on public officials: Be reminded the current POTUS hasn't exactly proven himself to be a friend of Israel so far during his time in office, but perhaps you're willing to overlook such a fact considering your ardent support of Obama-care. Can't have that cake and eat it too, son.
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  #52  
Old 07-18-2012, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TheZohan View Post
Please tell me what Britain has ever done for Israel?
Yes, they're made numerous mistakes...and some almost beyond belief as in the Balfour Declaration of 1917.

However: Here's yet another reason to get off that high horse you're riding on regarding all of Britain's failures towards the Jewish people:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0248912/
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  #53  
Old 07-18-2012, 07:29 PM
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Arrow Great Britain and Argentina

World War I and Chaim Weizmann

http://history1900s.about.com/cs/hol...ourdeclare.htm

During World War I, Great Britain needed help. Since Germany (Britain's enemy during WWI) had cornered the production of acetone -- an important ingredient for arms production -- Great Britain may have lost the war if Chaim Weizmann had not invented a fermentation process that allowed the British to manufacture their own liquid acetone.

It was this fermentation process that brought Weizmann to the attention of David Lloyd George (minister of ammunitions) and Arthur James Balfour (previously the British prime minister but at this time the first lord of the admiralty). Chaim Weizmann was not just a scientist; he was also the leader of the Zionist movement.

Diplomacy

Weizmann's contact with Lloyd George and Balfour continued, even after Lloyd George became prime minister and Balfour was transferred to the Foreign Office in 1916. Additional Zionist leaders such as Nahum Sokolow also pressured Great Britain to support a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

Alhough Balfour, himself, was in favor of a Jewish state, Great Britain particularly favored the declaration as an act of policy. Britain wanted the United States to join World War I and the British hoped that by supporting a Jewish homeland in Palestine, world Jewry would be able to sway the U.S. to join the war.

Announcing the Balfour Declaration

Though the Balfour Declaration went through several drafts, the final version was issued on November 2, 1917, in a letter from Balfour to Lord Rothschild, president of the British Zionist Federation. The main body of the letter quoted the decision of the October 31, 1917 British Cabinet meeting.

This declaration was accepted by the League of Nations on July 24, 1922 and embodied in the mandate that gave Great Britain temporary administrative control of Palestine.
The White Paper

In 1939, Great Britain reneged on the Balfour Declaration by issuing the White Paper, which stated that creating a Jewish state was no longer a British policy. It was also Great Britain's change in policy toward Palestine, especially the White Paper, that prevented millions of European Jews to escape from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine.

http://history1900s.about.com/cs/hol...ourdeclare.htm

Learn the lessons of HISTORY!


Nazis & Argentina: a History Lesson - http://www.gringoinbuenosaires.com/n...istory-lesson/

Argentina, a Haven for Nazis, Balks at Opening Its Files - http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/09/world/argentina-a-haven-for-nazis-balks-at-opening-its-files.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Argentina and the Nazis - http://www.raoulwallenberg.net/categ...les/argenazis/


There are NO perfect nations but some do try harder than others do as history has recorded.

Sorry about the underlines below. I have tried to delete them by every method I know but they would not go away.

So why do you hate Great Brittan so much Zohan? Your words say you do. I feel for them! The Great Britains that created the British Empire are long dead and many of their decedents, of which I am one, have rebelled against their homelands old views. The modern day Great Britians are suffering the results of their father’s sins and I for one pray they open their eyes, repent, and turn to the G_D of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob so that their land can be healed. Spiritual blindness is more deadly that physical blindness especially to a nation. To be complete one needs to be whole physically, mentally, and spiritually. Great Britain stands on the brink of destruction but their salvation rests in their own free will to choose their own path. We do not fight against flesh and blood but against the powers of evil that motivates them. Killing evil people will never end the world of evil. I am not saying we do not defend ourselves but I am saying our true foe is the true source of Evil behind them and we can never loose site of that TRUTH!

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Asymmetric Warfare It’s not just for the “Other Guys”


Last edited by Paparock; 07-18-2012 at 08:34 PM..
  #54  
Old 07-18-2012, 08:30 PM
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The points made in your postings on this subject (particularly the last two above, which is what I was going to say but in a far less polite manner...) are all excellent, Knaur. Jolly good show!
Thanks Scelli, and am thankful to British colonism for it or it is highly likely that in India it would have been French colonism instead and I'd be making these points in French, oui, the horror, the horror
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At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
  #55  
Old 07-18-2012, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TheZohan View Post
Yes, and no. I'm looking into the future a bit. With Britain's issue of Islamic immigration, what will the country look like 15+ years down the road? Eventually (due to birth rates), it will turn into an Islamic state, and even before that happens the actions of the British government will start to reflect what the growing population believes.

I've never heard of such issues with Argentina. I think they've improved a lot since their nazi hiding days.

Better to align yourself with nations that will still exist in their current form 15+ years down the road.
Islamists have their tentacles in Argentina also, search on this forum for Paparock's posts on Hezbollah's growing nexus there.

You want to believe Argentina will be a better ally than Britain in future?

Better than Britain which has bled with its allies in Operation Telic and Operation Herrick?

Well I ll tell you what, if Barry continues on this path of alienating Britain, like passing on Britain's nuclear secrets to Kremlin and supporting Argentina's "claim" to Falklands, it is not Britain I will blaim for chillier relations.

Extremist Islam is spreading in almost all Euro countries, and even in America as a matter of fact, but if your view on British govt.'s lack of spine in dealing with Islamists is to align with Argentina of all places, be my guest.

Why don't you ask former or current servicemen on this forum who they would rather have as an ally, Britain or Argentina , the answer might shock you!
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At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
  #56  
Old 07-18-2012, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TheZohan View Post
Please tell me what Britain has ever done for Israel?

- Occupied mandate palestine and prevented jews from immigrating as not to **** off the arabs
- Refused to bomb the concentration camps or the train tracks leading to them
- PM David Cameron's "prison camp" comment referring to gaza
- Failed to pull their weight during the 1956 Sinai Campaign
- Numerous anti semitic comments by British officials (more than I can list)
- etc. . .

http://terrortrendsbulletin.com/2012...vering-up-for-

Right now, Argentina's former president is facing trial over obstruction of justice for the 1994 Hezbollah bombing. Putting a former president to trial is a big deal, something the US has consistently failed to do when needed.

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-...ation-1.404549

In Shimon Peres' newest book about Ben Gurion, he lets out details of how Argentine police actually watched the abduction of Adolf Eichmann, and how they even had advanced knowledge of what Israel was wanting to do.

However, to be fair, Rafi Eitan disputes this. Though I would guess that Peres is right, as he was a public government official.
You can't expect people to keep debating with you if you insist on shifting the goalposts entirely. Scelli has answered you on this and so can anyone else on the forum.

BUT, you have turned your initial position on its head, your postulation was that Britain has no claim to Falklands, not Britain's history wrt Israel.

I have no truck with anti-semitists anywhere, if you look a couple of pages back, JanetnJohn who is British btw was the first to comment on Britain's chequered past followed by me and Ishmael, we are not blind to history on this forum.

But we do have a life outside the internet and can't keep on debating in a thread where the next time you login the entire discussion has shifted way off topic!
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At that time, I will search out and destroy all of the nations who have come against Jerusalem - Zechariah 12:9
  #57  
Old 07-18-2012, 08:52 PM
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Thanks Scelli, and am thankful to British colonism for it or it is highly likely that in India it would have been French colonism instead and I'd be making these points in French, oui, the horror, the horror
I'm truly not being condescending when stating that I've always had a special place in my heart for India, although my particular heritage is Irish/Italian. Supported a missionary there for many years from the Gospel for Asia organization founded by Dr. K. P. Yohannan, who was born and raised in Kerala, India.

Even admit to owning more than a few Bollywood flicks in my massive VHS/DVD/Blu-ray collection.
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  #58  
Old 07-18-2012, 10:01 PM
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Arrow Why are you here Zohan?

Zohan, you seem to be stirring the pot a lot here. What exactly is your background and your purpose/motivation here?
You need to educate yourself on subjects and offer proofs to support your claims. Saying something is so is not proof.
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The LORD make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.

Asymmetric Warfare It’s not just for the “Other Guys”

  #59  
Old 07-18-2012, 10:53 PM
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You can't expect people to keep debating with you if you insist on shifting the goalposts entirely. Scelli has answered you on this and so can anyone else on the forum.

BUT, you have turned your initial position on its head, your postulation was that Britain has no claim to Falklands, not Britain's history wrt Israel.

I have no truck with anti-semitists anywhere, if you look a couple of pages back, JanetnJohn who is British btw was the first to comment on Britain's chequered past followed by me and Ishmael, we are not blind to history on this forum.

But we do have a life outside the internet and can't keep on debating in a thread where the next time you login the entire discussion has shifted way off topic!
You guys stared mentioning how Argentina is anti semitic for harboring Nazis, so it was only natural to question how anti semitic Britain is in comparison, and both nations are guilty of anti semitism to some degree.

I don't hate the British, their government policies bothers me (JanetnJohn, run for parlement ), but I have absolutely no beef with them personally. Nor did I ever say Israel should totally burn it's bridges with Britain.

Looking at the bigger picture, my larger point here is that Israel needs to make new alliances, and if that means supporting Argentina at some point so be it. It's a matter of survival, I doubt we can expect Israel's current major allies to keep supporting it. That even goes for the US (as much as I hate to say it).

Just look at Turkey for example. That relationship hit the fan in less than a day.
  #60  
Old 07-18-2012, 11:06 PM
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Zohan, you seem to be stirring the pot a lot here. What exactly is your background and your purpose/motivation here?
You need to educate yourself on subjects and offer proofs to support your claims. Saying something is so is not proof.
Nothing other than I just wanted to provide my input. I wasn't looking to have this boil into a huge debate.

I'm a member of a local political science group where we discussed this very subject (i'm one of the founding members actually). I get a lot of my information from there, we have some some very informative discussions on various topics.
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