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Self Defense Martial arts, defending yourself, krav maga, firearms, weapons, survival, etc.

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  #1  
Old 09-02-2010, 02:27 AM
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Arrow Obama Administration Reverses Course, Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles

Obama Administration Reverses Course, Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles




The South Korean government, in an effort to raise money for its military, wants to sell nearly a million antique M1 rifles that were used by U.S. soldiers in the Korean War to gun collectors in America.

The Obama administration approved the sale of the American-made rifles last year. But it reversed course and banned the sale in March – a decision that went largely unnoticed at the time but that is now sparking opposition from gun rights advocates.

A State Department spokesman said the administration's decision was based on concerns that the guns could fall into the wrong hands.

"The transfer of such a large number of weapons -- 87,310 M1 Garands and 770,160 M1 Carbines -- could potentially be exploited by individuals seeking firearms for illicit purposes," the spokesman told FoxNews.com.

"We are working closely with our Korean allies and the U.S. Army in exploring alternative options to dispose of these firearms."

Gun control advocates praised the Obama administration for taking security seriously.

"Guns that can take high-capacity magazines are a threat to public safety," said Dennis Henigan of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "Even though they are old, these guns could deliver a great amount of firepower. So I think the Obama administration's concerns are well-taken."

But gun rights advocates point out that possessing M1 rifles is legal in the United States -- M1s are semi-automatics, not machine guns, meaning the trigger has to be pulled every time a shot is fired -- and anyone who would buy a gun from South Korea would have to go through the standard background check.

"Any guns that retail in the United States, of course, including these, can only be sold to someone who passes the National Instant Check System," said David Kopel, research director at the conservative Independence Institute. "There is no greater risk from these particular guns than there is from any other guns sold in the United States."

M1 carbines can hold high-capacity ammunition clips that allow dozens of rounds to be fired before re-loading, but Chris Cox, chief lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, noted that is true about any gun in which an ammunition magazine can be inserted -- including most semi-automatics.

"Anything that accepts an external magazine could accept a larger capacity magazine," Cox said.

"But the average number of rounds fired in the commission of a crime is somewhere between 1 and 2 … this issue just shows how little the administration understands about guns."

He called the administration's decision "a de facto gun ban, courtesy of Hillary Clinton's State Department."

Asked why the M1s pose a threat, the State Department spokesman referred questions to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. ATF representatives said they would look into the question Monday afternoon, but on Wednesday they referred questions to the Justice Department. DOJ spokesman Dean Boyd referred questions back to the State Department.

According to the ATF Guidebook on Firearms Importation, it would normally be legal to import the M1s because they are more than 50 years old, meaning they qualify as "curios or relics." But because the guns were given to South Korea by the U.S. government, they fall under a special category that requires permission from the State Department before any sale.

Kopel said that he hopes the State Department spokesman's statement that it is working to "dispose" of the guns does not mean they want to melt them down.

"It seems to have this implication of destruction, which would be tremendously wasteful," he said. "These are guns that should be in the hands of American citizens for marksmanship and safety training."

Asked whether melting the guns down would be a good option, Henigan said: "Why let them into the country in the first place? If there is a legally sufficient way to keep them out, we think it's perfectly reasonable to do so."

Past administrations have also grappled with the issue of large-scale gun imports.

The Clinton administration blocked sales of M1s and other antiquated military weapons from the Philippines, Turkey and Pakistan. It also ended the practice of reselling used guns owned by federal agencies, ordering that they be melted down instead.

In contrast, 200,000 M1 rifles from South Korea were allowed to be sold in the U.S. under the Reagan administration in 1987.
A decision like that would be better for everyone, Cox said.

"M1s are used for target practice. For history buffs, they're highly collectible. We're going to continue to make sure that this backdoor effort that infringes not only on lawful commerce but on the Second Amendment is rectified."

Henigan disagrees.

"They clearly were used as military guns, and the fact that they likely can take high-capacity magazines makes them a special safety concern," he said.

The White House referred questions on the issue to the Pentagon, which referred questions to the U.S. Embassy in South Korea, which deferred back to the State Department.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...est=latestnews
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:44 AM
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what morons!!! what all of the AR15s tavors and countless guns sold in the US are legal but M1s aren't legal? Most of the time I dont get the US government.
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Old 09-12-2010, 02:36 PM
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Yes those 8 round or less guns are the favored guns of the gang bangers for their drive bys.
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Old 09-12-2010, 06:16 PM
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This is all part of the globalist plan to destroy the sovereignty of the US and nullify the US Constitution. OMG is just one more socialist/Marxist putz that believes that if socialism/Marxism is just given a chance in the right atmosphere and environment that some offshoot of Karl's totalitarian doctrine will have success. After decades, Europe is starting to turn the corner and eschew their love for this destructive dogma. By doing an end run around the US Constitution, OMG and his ilk can disarm Americans and make it safe for foreign troops to help with any future civil unrest. OMG and all his czars represent one of the most clueless ruling administration since the beginning of this country. However, if you view what he is doing a little more skeptically, he, and his wrecking crew are quite successful in "changing" America from the world's last best hope into just one more bland socialistic/Marxist society for this miserable planet. Coupled with Keynesian economics; OMG's socialism/Marxism philosophy will do more damage to personal freedom in America than any religious "ism" could ever do. David Icke called these type of people who feel that they have the right to lord it over all others the "prison warders." Well it certainly appears that OMG (and clueless crew) has developed a "prison warder" mentality. Doom on the US!!!
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Old 11-19-2011, 05:01 AM
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you would think Oboma would want weapons imported because his people need them to occupy the major cities, seriously I want an M1 Grand pretty bad
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The True believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'... he knows he either wins or he dies.
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:12 PM
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87,310 M1 Garands blocked with the excuse of having the ability to use high capacity magazines? Garands use 8 round enbloc clips.

The goal of the South Korean government is to improve their military and get rid of surplus. The US government wants to help. So some sort of arrangement can surely be reached. How about a trade of surplus US equipment they could use for the rifles? There is plenty of military equipment that could be transferred. Then the rifles could be transferred to CMP in the U.S. and sold through a program that is much less likely to put guns "in the wrong hands" due to the restrictions that CMP has for sales.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:09 AM
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Apparently Eric Holder doesnt need to abide by those standards.
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Old 06-21-2012, 04:41 AM
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Well I need not say it but I'll say it anyway. The Obama Administration is filled with lies. If they can't simply not mention something, they will outright lie about it or both if they can.

I'm betting they're hoping the public won't know the difference between the M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine and the M1A1 Thompson as well.

So they 1. Lie and say it can accept a "high capacity mag" (Never mind that the 2nd Amendment makes no mention of what arms a citizen can or can not have.) and never mention that there is more than one historical small arm with the M1 designation and they do not all function the same or have the same parts.

Lies and deceit. SHAME be upon them for what they have done. Wicked men, absolute shame. I'm no saint myself but I know better.
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:37 AM
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An M1 carbine has a small magazine and fires a pistol round. Not exactly something i'd call dangerous. Probably just as dangerous as a .22 rifle.
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:21 PM
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The cartridge for the M1 Carbine is the .30 Carbine designated cartridge. It was specifically designed with the M1 Carbine in mind and was an advancement more or less of the .32 Winchester Self-Loading Cartridge, another cartridge for rifles.

The straight wall design gives some the illusion that it was designed for use in pistols but it only came around when the design of the M1 Carbine was happening.

.30 Carbine could be considered a move towards the shorter intermediate rounds like 7.92 Kurz, 7.62x39, 5.56x45 NATO and so on and so forth. While it was likely not intended to be an intermediate cartridge, here are your similarities.

.30 Carbine has a 33mm long casing

7.92x33 Kurz has a 33mm long casing

Kurz is considered the first intermediate cartridge.

7.62x39 has a 39mm cartridge, more or less it was an attempt to make a better intermediate cartridge. Not much longer of a casing really.

Differences?

Modern Intermediate cartridges usually have a bottle necked casing to allow for the round to reach higher velocities and carry more energy.

However, .30 Carbine was developed in the US when every rifle round was moving over to a bottle necked casing. In the mental change over of anything, some old ideas (though certainly not always antiquated) tend to keep popping up for a period of time.

.30 Carbine is a bit anemic on velocity compared to modern intermediate rounds, but it's value is purely historical and helps keep history alive for future generations.

Can a .30 Carbine round be stopped by ballistic protection? Average velocity seems to be around 1,900 feet per second. So yes it can be stopped. Would you want to be hit by one? No, not at all, all ballistic vests do not absorb all the energy exerted by a round on impact. They just give you a better chance of staying alive.

The M1A1 Thompson however, yes that is entirely a pistol round firing design. The round's acronym in it's very name even bares that out, Automatic Colt Pistol, ACP.
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:29 PM
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Exclamation Bipartisanship: Some Democrats Will Support Contempt Charges Against Eric Holder

Bipartisanship: Some Democrats Will Support Contempt Charges Against Eric Holder
by Jason Howerton


June 26, 2012
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/bipa...t-eric-holder/


(The Blaze/AP) – Now that the politically potent National Rifle Association is keeping score, some Democrats may join House Republicans if there’s a vote to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress in a dispute over documents related to a the botched gun-tracking operation “Fast and Furious.”

The chief Democratic House head counter, Rep. Steny Hoyer of Maryland, declined to tell reporters how many defections he expected, but acknowledged that some in his party would consider heeding the NRA’s call for a “yes” vote.


United States congressman Jim Matheson (D-Utah) (AP PHOTO/DESERET NEWS/TOM SMART)

One of those Democrats, Rep. Jim Matheson of Utah, said, “Sadly, it seems that it will take holding the attorney general in contempt to communicate that evasiveness is unacceptable. It is a vote I will support.”

The gun owners association injected itself last week into the stalemate over Justice Department documents demanded by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. The NRA said it supports the contempt resolution and will keep a record of how members vote.

An NRA letter to House members contended that the Obama administration “actively sought information” from Operation Fast and Furious to support its program to require dealers to report multiple rifle sales.

The program, which began last August, imposed the requirement for sales of specifically identified long guns in four border states: Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico. A federal judge upheld the requirement.

Republicans want Eric Holder to become the first attorney general to be cited by the House for contempt, because he has refused to give the Oversight and Government Reform Committee all the documents it wants related to Operation Fast and Furious.

Unless a last-minute deal is worked out, always a possibility in Congress, the contempt vote is scheduled for Thursday — the same day the Supreme Court is to announce its ruling on the legality of the nation’s health care law. It will likely be a long day for both Holder and Obama as both decisions have huge implications for each of them going forward.


Attorney General Eric Holder listens to Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., on video screen, while testifying on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, Dec. 8, 2011. (AP Photo/Susan Walsh)

Still, even a vote to hold Holder in contempt of Congress wouldn’t send any documents to the Oversight committee and its chairman, Republican Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.). President Barack Obama has claimed executive privilege, a legal step that presidents have used to maintain secrecy of internal administration documents.

Obama invoked what is known as “deliberative process privilege,” a claim designed to broadly cover executive branch documents. However Issa, in a letter to the president, said Obama was misusing the narrower “presidential communications privilege,” which is reserved for documents to and from the president and his most senior advisers.

White House Spokesman Eric Schultz said Tuesday that Issa’s analysis “has as much merit as his absurd contention that Operation Fast and Furious was created in order to promote gun control. Our position is consistent with executive branch legal precedent for the past three decades spanning administrations of both parties.”

Ironically, the documents at the heart of the current argument are not directly related to the workings of Operation Fast and Furious, which allowed guns to “walk” from Arizona to Mexico in hopes they could be tracked. The department has given Issa 7,600 documents on the operation.

Rather, Issa wants internal communications from February 2011, when the administration denied knowledge of gun-walking, to the end of that year, when officials acknowledged the denial was erroneous. Those documents covered a period after Fast and Furious had been shut down.

In Fast and Furious, agents of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Arizona abandoned the agency’s usual practice of intercepting all weapons they believed to be illicitly purchased. Instead, the goal of gun-walking was to track such weapons to high-level arms traffickers who long had eluded prosecution and to dismantle their networks.

Gun-walking long has been barred by Justice Department policy, but federal agents in Arizona experimented with it in at least two investigations during the George W. Bush administration before Fast and Furious. These experiments came as the department was under widespread criticism that the old policy of arresting every suspected low-level “straw purchaser” was still allowing tens of thousands of guns to reach Mexico. A straw purchaser is an illicit buyer of guns for others.

The agents in Arizona lost track of several hundred weapons in Operation Fast and Furious. The low point of the operation came in Arizona in 2010, when U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was killed in a firefight with a group of armed Mexican bandits and two guns traced to the operation were found at the scene.


Guns recovered from operation Fast and Furious (File)

Issa, in his letter to the president, wrote, “Courts have consistently held that the assertion of the constitutionally-based executive privilege … is only applicable … to documents and communications that implicate the confidentiality of the president’s decision-making process.”

The letter said that while the privilege covers only the president and his advisers, it is a qualified privilege that can be overcome by a showing of the committee’s need for the documents.

Issa quoted from a 1997 case in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit in which the court said the privilege should not extend to staff outside the White House in executive branch agencies.

Rather, the court said, it should apply only to “communications authored or solicited and received by those members of an immediate White House adviser’s staff” with responsibility for formulating advice for the president.

However, the case Issa repeatedly cited in his letter distinguishes carefully between the “presidential communications privilege” and the “deliberative process privilege,” which Obama invoked in the current dispute over Operation Fast and Furious. In the case Issa cited, the court dealt only with the presidential communication privilege but observed that both the communications privilege and the deliberative privilege are executive privileges designed to protect the confidentiality of executive branch decision-making.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/bipa...t-eric-holder/
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The LORD make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.

Asymmetric Warfare It’s not just for the “Other Guys”


Last edited by Paparock; 06-26-2012 at 11:32 PM..
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:36 PM
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When are we going to have "Operation get a real US government"
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redfan45x View Post
When are we going to have "Operation get a real US government"
6th Nov. hopefully, if Romney doesn't turn out to be a dud.
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:09 AM
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I always wanted an M-1 Garand if I go out and buy one they will no doubt bring these rifles back then the price will drop and I will have paid too much.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water, in austere conditions, day and night.
The only thing clean on him is his weapon.
He doesn't worry about what workout to do...
His rucksack weighs what he weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him
The True believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'... he knows he either wins or he dies.
He doesn't go home at 1700... he is home.
He knows only the cause...
Now, who wants to quit?
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Old 09-08-2014, 12:08 AM
175SMK 175SMK is offline
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Get one from the CMP. I have more than 30 USGI M1s, 15 M1 Carbines, 10 M1903a3s and 30 M14s. And 500 rounds ammo for each. And an IMI Galil. One of my favorites.
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Old 09-20-2014, 03:37 PM
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the Koreans will sell whoever pays the most Money....this administration is ....nothing...no coherent policys...moral big talk...but no real action or commitment
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