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Historical Israel-Arab wars Discuss the strategies and the situation of the historical Israeli-Arab wars from 1948-1982 and it's implications on Israel.

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Old 01-13-2010, 10:18 AM
dannytoro dannytoro is offline
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Default M4 Sherman in Israeli service

.......I was curious if anyone had any pictures or accounts of various Sherman's as they progressed through usage. Perhaps with the various gun changes made. What thought was given to each gun perhaps. Did they operate the 76mm gun at all? I'd think given the time period and numbers produced, that would be the case....
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:30 PM
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http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...sraeli_service
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:49 AM
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Here are some pictures of Sherman M-4-E-8 76mm in Israeli service;



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No Problem to Big or to Small that Can't be Cured by the Proper aplication of High Explosives



Let us lay aside the 'pomp and circumstance' of war, pull off our coats and 'wade in'...
Let our divisions move on - kill, confiscate or destroy,
Throw every sympathy to the wind that might stand in the way...

- 13th Wisconsin Infantry Regiment, 1862
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:46 PM
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.......Thanks. I had not seen many pics of Israeli M1 76mm gunned Shermans. Are there any good accounts of them in tank battles? Also thanks for the Wiki link! Al tough I'm curious now about the AMX turreted one? Was that a lash job? Taking two un-usable bodies and making one good one? What was the rationale?....
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:43 PM
Sgt. Cav Sgt. Cav is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannytoro View Post
.......Thanks. I had not seen many pics of Israeli M1 76mm gunned Shermans. Are there any good accounts of them in tank battles? Also thanks for the Wiki link! Al tough I'm curious now about the AMX turreted one? Was that a lash job? Taking two un-usable bodies and making one good one? What was the rationale?....
No, the gun in the AMX turret was the French manufactured, 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70 developed by the Germans for the Panther, Mk V, a far more powerful weapon than the 76mm U.S. gun.

From what I understand, Israel had purchased some AMX 13's along with surplus extra turrets, from France, and then decided to mount those turrets to M-4 Sherman hulls to make use of them, they definitely were not a lashup, but a purpose built design, as the diameter of the turret ring of the AMX 13 and the Sherman are not compatible, and major modifications must be made to mate them.
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No Problem to Big or to Small that Can't be Cured by the Proper aplication of High Explosives



Let us lay aside the 'pomp and circumstance' of war, pull off our coats and 'wade in'...
Let our divisions move on - kill, confiscate or destroy,
Throw every sympathy to the wind that might stand in the way...

- 13th Wisconsin Infantry Regiment, 1862
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Old 01-15-2010, 04:54 AM
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.....Maybe the WWII lack of a standard tungsten steel penetrating round hampered the performance of the M1 series gun, but it was certainly corrected with the step up to the M32 76mm gun, which is heavily based on the M1 series. I'm not fully convinced the FL-10 75mm was quite as powerful as the full double long KwK42 L/70 either. The FL-10 was a revolver loader as well. It would be nice to find some info on the CN-75-50 ammo of the earlier time period to see the penetration difference, especially given the cut down in barrel length (61 versus 70 cal). Looking directly at the two you have the M1 at 55cal, so I'd suspect it would under perform compared to the CN-75-50. But not by a big margin....(p.s. I found an old Janes quoting on CN-75-50 ammo, but it maddeningly gives no range values!!!!)
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Old 01-15-2010, 05:17 PM
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There is a well used Sherman parked up on the Golan, along with a British Centurion and a Russian T34. The T34 is in really rough shape.

I have some photos I took last July, when I figure out how to post them I will.

Shalom
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:45 PM
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......I hear of a single Sherman dispatching over 20 MTB's in one engagement and just am amazed to no end. The IDF is the best!....
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