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Navy Forum Israeli Navy discussion, submarines, frigates and Israeli naval forces + Navy's from other nations.

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  #141  
Old 04-27-2009, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Under estimating the U.S. navy is a mistake and so is over estimating it. Spending a lot of money on the military/navy doesn't make it invincible, but very it does make it very 'scary'. Which is the U.S.'s greatest defense... the fact no country with a conventional army really wants to go to war with the U.S.
And you Sir are sooo foooollishh!

Here's why:

Because right now, the US has troops deployed. True, not in Iran, but in Iraq. And Iranian diplomats (representing Iran in the UN, based in NYC,) have told US officials that if Iran is attacked, (either by Israel or the US,) that they will respond by attacking US troops stationed in Iraq.

And while I have no doubt that the US Navy can make short work of the Iranian navy, that is not the issue.

The issue is how to stop the Iranian's from killing perhaps 10,000 to 15,000 US troops in Iraq. Because they have the means to kill that many US troops pretty quickly and the US military doesn't have the capacity to respond -- the US has the capacity of course, just not immediately. We would take at least two weeks to begin an effective Iranian counter strike.

Our military bases in Iraq would become the graveyards for US troops. (And this is why the US has pressured Israel not to attack Iran.)

And what should we do to change these circumstances? Get out of Iran as quickly as possible. And Israel would one more time demonstrate the authority the God of the Bible gave them over their adversaries.

But I don't think it's going to go down this way. I think Israel has already waited too long and now, with Iran getting assistance from Russian intelligence, it appears to be impossible for Israel to attack Iran, with a surprise attack.

I wish I had some good news, but I think Israel is in real trouble now.
  #142  
Old 04-27-2009, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deut_20-21 View Post
And you Sir are sooo foooollishh!

Here's why:

Because right now, the US has troops deployed. True, not in Iran, but in Iraq. And Iranian diplomats (representing Iran in the UN, based in NYC,) have told US officials that if Iran is attacked, (either by Israel or the US,) that they will respond by attacking US troops stationed in Iraq.

And while I have no doubt that the US Navy can make short work of the Iranian navy, that is not the issue.

The issue is how to stop the Iranian's from killing perhaps 10,000 to 15,000 US troops in Iraq. Because they have the means to kill that many US troops pretty quickly and the US military doesn't have the capacity to respond -- the US has the capacity of course, just not immediately. We would take at least two weeks to begin an effective Iranian counter strike.

Our military bases in Iraq would become the graveyards for US troops. (And this is why the US has pressured Israel not to attack Iran.)

And what should we do to change these circumstances? Get out of Iran as quickly as possible. And Israel would one more time demonstrate the authority the God of the Bible gave them over their adversaries.

But I don't think it's going to go down this way. I think Israel has already waited too long and now, with Iran getting assistance from Russian intelligence, it appears to be impossible for Israel to attack Iran, with a surprise attack.

I wish I had some good news, but I think Israel is in real trouble now.
And you sir will respect members of this forum when addressing them!

You give alot of critism but no solutions.

Iran cannot kill thousands of US troops like you have stated. the day they try the U.S. will send F-15's in Iranian terrirtory and reduce their buildings into burnt ash with absolutely no pity!!!! They have already btw engaged in attacking US troops in Iraq, so they are already guilty of this.

Russia does not have good intel on Israel, and Israel still can anytime it decides strike Iran without Russia knowing, you sir are falling into the wrong belief given to us by Russia that they and Iran are Gods and know everything.

Irans navy can be destroyed if they dare to engage the United States Navy! And Iran will cry like a little baby
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  #143  
Old 05-27-2009, 11:18 PM
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I wounder if Iran min submarice are design for suidice mission. If so US many face many more loses. Also unknown how Iran Uav would effect the war. They could cause many deaths when come chemcial attacts or even just put some radical stuff in them. Again US navy would make quik work Iran navy but may come heavy cost.
  #144  
Old 05-27-2009, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belkin View Post
I wounder if Iran min submarice are design for suidice mission. If so US many face many more loses. Also unknown how Iran Uav would effect the war. They could cause many deaths when come chemcial attacts or even just put some radical stuff in them. Again US navy would make quik work Iran navy but may come heavy cost.
Lets just hope Iran doesnt hire you as their advisor on Naval suicide missions because if they do, they will lose faster than I can say "submarice"!
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  #145  
Old 05-27-2009, 11:42 PM
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Besides if Iran's naval submarine sailors want to commit suicide, they can go right ahead will make things a hell of alot easier for the IDF! LOL
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  #146  
Old 05-27-2009, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belkin View Post
I wounder if Iran min submarice are design for suidice mission. If so US many face many more loses. Also unknown how Iran Uav would effect the war. They could cause many deaths when come chemcial attacts or even just put some radical stuff in them. Again US navy would make quik work Iran navy but may come heavy cost.
What doesn't come at a heavy cost when dealing with fanatical maniacs? Your naivete is downright astounding! Go back to playing video games and leave waging war to the professionals.
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  #147  
Old 05-28-2009, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scelli View Post
What doesn't come at a heavy cost when dealing with fanatical maniacs? Your naivete is downright astounding! Go back to playing video games and leave waging war to the professionals.
Spoken!
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  #148  
Old 06-07-2009, 05:19 AM
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When I saw the title to this thread I thought it was a joke. Yea, the Iranian navy is fairly large by middle east standards, but against the US Navy (larger than all the navies in the world combined, except for perhaps in small ships) it would be a very short conflict. Irans navy would make good coral reef material tho......

The only threat I could see from Iran at sea is either missiles--which is a real threat--or maybe their diesel subs could get lucky against some really stupid/unluckly American captain. But I don't see it. Forget the technology, the doctrinal issues alone would get the Iranians sunk.
  #149  
Old 06-08-2009, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by *titanium* View Post
Do aircraft carriers have any guns near the waterline, because if the guns are all on deck it certainly leaves them vunrable if a small boat can get up close.
I'm not sure if the carriers themselves do, although I think that they do have a few 'auto-deployed' machine gun stations for this purpose. However, what carriers do have is a series of supporting vessels that most certainly do have these sorts of near-vessel weapons that you'd have seen circa WWII (but better). Between the missiles, cannons, MGs, and even non-lethal weapons, the likelihood that a very small craft gets to a carrier on the surface is very small IMHO.

Nothing is impossible, but I wouldn't want to be the one on that suicide mission....
  #150  
Old 06-08-2009, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by NEW RON View Post
The US will win.
Yes, I agree.... but then again, define 'win.'
  #151  
Old 06-27-2009, 02:41 PM
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Hi guys, someone asked, "define victory." I think my definition of an American victory would be, if we can destroy the Iranian navy without losing one of our aircraft carriers to their Kilos and suicide minisubs and speedboats. I'd put my money on the US Navy. The Iranian mariners are just going to get themselves killed, for their mullahs' hubris.

Last edited by vimana; 06-27-2009 at 02:46 PM..
  #152  
Old 07-08-2009, 04:34 AM
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Exclamation idf navy..the best!



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Last edited by Paparock; 07-08-2009 at 04:45 AM..
  #153  
Old 07-28-2009, 04:56 PM
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I have never served in the military. So I am completely inexperienced in these matters.

But I think Iran, with the aid of Russian intelligence, would do very well against the US navy. (I do not like saying this, believe me.) Also, I assume that every engagement, at the beginning of the conflict, will be different, too, with the Iranian's making innovations in whatever way they can.

But I don't see an Iran-US fight anytime soon (ie., not for 5-10 years.) And I read that Ben Stein has evidence that Iran was given the green-light to continue their nuke development by Hillary Clinton, who promised US assistance to prevent an Israeli attack on Iran by Israel.

If you think I'm kidding, go read the ECONOMIST, see the recent article by Ben Stein. Sorry, I don't have the issue handy.
  #154  
Old 10-16-2009, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belkin View Post
I wounder if Iran min submarice are design for suidice mission. If so US many face many more loses. Also unknown how Iran Uav would effect the war. They could cause many deaths when come chemcial attacts or even just put some radical stuff in them. Again US navy would make quik work Iran navy but may come heavy cost.
You seem to forget we have the capability of ASW operations. I am a retired submariner from the USN. I served 20 years onboard subs my entire career and know very well our capabilities vs that of a third world Navy like Iran. You can own all the subs in the world but if your sound silencing program is non-existent then they are no more effective then a trash can rolling down an alley. It can be heard all around the neighborhood. Then there are the tactics which come from training and discipline.

Owning a sub does not make you invincible or a formidable threat. It is a threat we take seriously because it only takes one succesful shot to make your threat known. But to be consistently successful requires more then simply owning a submarine. I could spend pages talking about this issue. The heavy cost will not be on the US Navy, but on Iran as it was demonstrated under President Reagan's administration. They may score a quick succesful hit, but our wrath will be as swift and as costly as it was under Reagan's term for which I was fortunate to serve under.

I am amazed at the cheerleading from the left against our military might. I heard numerous predictions before the Iraq war that our men and women would be coming back from Iraq in body bags by the tens of thousands and that absurd remark was blown completely out of the water. Even today the numbers of our losses are unbelievably lower then anyone could have imagined despite all we have been through.

Last edited by cclevel; 10-16-2009 at 06:53 PM..
  #155  
Old 10-16-2009, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deut_20-21 View Post
I have never served in the military. So I am completely inexperienced in these matters.

But I think Iran, with the aid of Russian intelligence, would do very well against the US navy. (I do not like saying this, believe me.) Also, I assume that every engagement, at the beginning of the conflict, will be different, too, with the Iranian's making innovations in whatever way they can.

But I don't see an Iran-US fight anytime soon (ie., not for 5-10 years.) And I read that Ben Stein has evidence that Iran was given the green-light to continue their nuke development by Hillary Clinton, who promised US assistance to prevent an Israeli attack on Iran by Israel.

If you think I'm kidding, go read the ECONOMIST, see the recent article by Ben Stein. Sorry, I don't have the issue handy.
And many thought that Iraq would do well against our pilots with all of the anti-missle defese systems they purchased from Russia. You are correct when you stated you are completely inexperienced in these matters. I am a retired submariner and thus a professional in the field of ASW operations and our Navy. You are naive to think that even with Raussias help they could score naval victories against our Naval forces. Here is two words that is a nuturalizing factor. Aircraft Carrier. That is like parking an airbase in your back yard. We would obliterate their military structure overnight.
  #156  
Old 11-27-2009, 06:51 AM
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Man's rebellion to God's commandments is the source of all evil. God is Love.
  #157  
Old 11-27-2009, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal View Post
It is much the same situation when comparing Irans airforce also.

Can you just picture Irans old Phantoms F-4's going against F/A-18's
Let me correct you there... Iran's old Phantom F-4's vs the F-22 or JSF(Navy). But I do bet the F/A-18 could wipe the floor with their Air Force also.
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  #158  
Old 01-30-2010, 01:52 AM
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Iran's Navy is not comparable to that of the US. There isn't really much to talk on this point.
  #159  
Old 01-30-2010, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by usncaptret View Post
Iran's Navy is not comparable to that of the US. There isn't really much to talk on this point.
True of course.

What the USN needs to be prepared for are the efforts required to clear the Straits of Hormuz of mines, and do so under the harassment of truck-launched anti-ship missiles. The results will not be in doubt, only the time required. Of course, the country as whole (and the world) needs to be prepared for 1 to 3 months where that strait is closed to oil shipments.

From Closing Time by Caitlin Talmadge in International Security, MIT Press Journals, Summer 2008:

Quote:
The United States’ ultimate military superiority vis-à-vis Iran is without question, and eventually the United States would prevail in any confrontation.

Nevertheless, mine warfare is within Iran’s capabilities, and Iran possesses the antiship cruise missiles and air defense needed to make U.S. MCM operations even more difficult and time-consuming than they normally are. It does not take much imagination to suggest that the traffic in the Strait of Hormuz could be impeded for weeks or longer, with major air and naval operations required to restore the full flow of traffic.
Just to mention, this is a good quality (its International Security, afterall) 37 page article, and I recommend it to anyone who is interested.
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  #160  
Old 01-31-2010, 01:02 AM
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........We have been round and round about the Straight of Hormoz gambit over at the Iranian Defence Forum. The Iranian position is sorely mired in stubborn ignorance of the brutalities of modern naval warfare. Swarming motorboats will be little more then a total annoyance for today's modern combat ships. Between 5" , 76mm and 57mm gun fire, Guided Hydra rockets, PAM's, Aim-9X, these little boats do not stand a chance.

As far as closing the straight, local USN, USAF and Gulf state forces will reduce shore based systems to rubble in fairly short order. With obvious priority going to ASM's and SAM's. Their two best bets are mines and submarines. And it's hard to say how good their submarine crews are. I'd bet better then average, just given the investments they seem to lavish on them. But beat the USN at it's favorite game? I doubt it....
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